Meter Tails 16mm 0r 25mm

[haj]

Talking with a collegue today regarding meter tails.I went to look at a c/u change 80A main head on 16mm Tails i said should be 25mm but he said 16mm was ok 25mm for 100A main head. Whats the word out there with you good men ?
Cheers

 

[chocolate]

Always go for the better option with cable sizes. I would personally never use 16mm whatever the incomer fuse. Even if you know it's 60A or 80A, pretend it's 100A and put in 25mm2 tails ( double insulated ). The 17th Ed. recommends that anyway whatever.

 

[flukey]

i only fit 25mm

 

[securityvillage]

As previously stated 25mm for me too.

 

[haj]

Thanks guys i quoted OSG it says SHOULD be 25mm not must be 25mm he says leave them alone i think change them.

 

[flukey]

Thanks guys i quoted OSG it says SHOULD be 25mm not must be 25mm he says leave them alone i think change them.

quite right haj, exact wording is

"polarity should be indicated by the colour of the insulation and the minimum cable size should be 25mm2"

theres 2 shoulds in that statement. would your mate ignore the first should the sameas he would the second should

25mm it is then

 

[garyp1155]

Talking with a collegue today regarding meter tails.I went to look at a c/u change 80A main head on 16mm Tails i said should be 25mm but he said 16mm was ok 25mm for 100A main head. Whats the word out there with you good men ?
Cheers

hi i assume that it was a house you went to so has to be 25mm .also double insulated hope this helps.

 

[Peter Woodford]

Do you get leb in to pull fuse or are we aloud to disconnect from there meter

 

[SirKit Breaker]

I always use 25mm tails, just remember to upgrade the bonding cables to suit.
The meter tail size is dependant on the cutout fuse rating as far as i `am aware.

 

[Mac]

Do you get leb in to pull fuse or are we aloud to disconnect from there meter

Just do it.Pull the fuse.Who says there was a seal on the cut out anyway

 

[philsheriton]

You are supposed to get them to pull the fuse (its their equipment) but i always do it my self problems start at the main fuse if youre up rating the tails from the meter to the consumer unit then you should also change them from the incomong supply point ( the fused inlet)Probably stating the obvious burt rememmber the meter is wired live neutral neutral live good luck you obviously can't seal the job but to be honest most work i come across the meter is never sealed any way good luck phil S

 

[ajelec10]

Do you get leb in to pull fuse or are we aloud to disconnect from there meter

Peter if you are in any dout as to weather to remove the suppliers cut out. dont be. Basicly the electricity at work act says that every installation has to be provided with a means of isolation for safe working. So if the supllier has provided a means of isolation ie a swich or the meter with a built in isolator (not designed to be switch under load) then all is fine but if they have only provided a cut out and meter then they can not argue why you have cut their seal and removed the fuse. what do they expect you to change the tails LIVE!?????
Hope this helps
Regards
AJ

 

[haj]

Thanks gentlemen as far as pulling the cut out as said earlier JUST DO IT we need to stay safe dont we 25mm & 16mm earth it is then !
I digress i have been asked to wire a loft conversion my questions are is it ok to extend the upstairs ring and lighting or should i take a couple of new direct feeds from the board not so easy but possible i think.Do i need to beware of any regular problems that pop up with loft conversions ?
Cheers Guys

 

[Risteard]

what do they expect you to change the tails LIVE!?????

No, they expect you to contact them to remove the fuse.

Interfering with the Supplier's equipment is illegal and is subject to a Stg £1,000 fine.

 

[ajelec10]

Yes in an ideal world, but its just not reasonalbe practicable is it. so you are a good boy and phone them every time you want to change some tails and you sit around waiting for them to pop out and do it for you. Don't think you would win many jobs if you are chargeing on the costs??. They have obvsioly seen a problem with the old units and thats why now they install either a swicth or the meter with the isolator built in.
Many Thanks
AJ

 

[flukey]

Yes in an ideal world, but its just not reasonalbe practicable is it. so you are a good boy and phone them every time you want to change some tails and you sit around waiting for them to pop out and do it for you. Don't think you would win many jobs if you are chargeing on the costs??. They have obvsioly seen a problem with the old units and thats why now they install either a swicth or the meter with the isolator built in.
Many Thanks
AJ

im with you aj, ive tried to go the proper route far too many times, at my expense

strange that because since i decided to snip them myself ive yet to find one with a seal

 

[DAVIE99]

You are supposed to get them to pull the fuse (its their equipment) but i always do it my self problems start at the main fuse if youre up rating the tails from the meter to the consumer unit then you should also change them from the incomong supply point ( the fused inlet)Probably stating the obvious burt rememmber the meter is wired live neutral neutral live good luck you obviously can't seal the job but to be honest most work i come across the meter is never sealed any way good luck phil S

Most suppliers are fitting isolator switches to there set ups now anyway so in time there will be no need to pull the fuse or cut the seals.
I was with scottish power a few year back and they had a lot of work fitting isolators and all the new builds in the last few years have to be fitted with an isolator when a new connection is being fitted.

 

[danzor]

Just do it.Pull the fuse.Who says there was a seal on the cut out anyway

"seals" ? Never seen one of them before, one's I always come across have already been cut

 

[DAVIE99]

HA HA, your right mate, very right, you do get the goodie two shoes a lot though, they see a seal and its like f4nny fright for them!

 

[saveloy]

You are supposed to get them to pull the fuse (its their equipment) but i always do it my self problems start at the main fuse if youre up rating the tails from the meter to the consumer unit then you should also change them from the incomong supply point ( the fused inlet)Probably stating the obvious burt rememmber the meter is wired live neutral neutral live good luck you obviously can't seal the job but to be honest most work i come across the meter is never sealed any way good luck phil S

You are not allowed to change the tails from the main service fuse to the meter. Any equipment before the meter is the responsibility of the DNO.

 

[ryanryan]

Just do it.Pull the fuse.Who says there was a seal on the cut out anyway

has anyone ever been prosecuted for cutting fuse seals?

 

[Spudnik]

Whilst everyone is jollying about pulling the service fuse, may i point out that,

SOME service fuses are reasonably old and can basically fall apart in your hands as you pull the carrier.

If in any doubt DONT DO IT.

Thinking your working safe could end up killing you.

 

[flukey]

Whilst everyone is jollying about pulling the service fuse, may i point out that,

SOME service fuses are reasonably old and can basically fall apart in your hands as you pull the carrier.

If in any doubt DONT DO IT.

Thinking your working safe could end up killing you.

quite right jason. use your discression when deciding to pull it. think ive been lucky so far as all have come out as expected

 

[ezzzekiel]

You are supposed to get them to pull the fuse (its their equipment) but i always do it my self problems start at the main fuse if youre up rating the tails from the meter to the consumer unit then you should also change them from the incomong supply point ( the fused inlet)Probably stating the obvious burt rememmber the meter is wired live neutral neutral live good luck you obviously can't seal the job but to be honest most work i come across the meter is never sealed any way good luck phil S

I have never given a thought to pulling the main fuse and would always do it as its the only practical way of getting the job done HOWEVER dont go altering any tails on dno side as suggested above, fit a isolator and your new tails to db and reconnect dno side into isolator and if you think they in a bad way just report it to them, ive worked under dno authority for a long time and yeah service fuse seals tend to be overlooked but you really shouldnt be altering any of their equipment.

 

[c.boy]

Just do it.Pull the fuse.Who says there was a seal on the cut out anyway

oh your very naughty!!! talk nicely to the authority guys get a box o seals and a crimper happy days!!!

 

[ezzzekiel]

the crimper wont be serial embeded which identifys the last dno guy to work on the cut out though, not that it matters lol

 

[Mac]

oh your very naughty!!! talk nicely to the authority guys get a box o seals and a crimper happy days!!!

How many cut out's have you come across that have seals on

 

[SirKit Breaker]

Whilst everyone is jollying about pulling the service fuse, may i point out that,

SOME service fuses are reasonably old and can basically fall apart in your hands as you pull the carrier.

If in any doubt DONT DO IT.

Thinking your working safe could end up killing you.

This happened to a spark either last year or year before, he ended up with a hand full of live fuse and it killed him.

I never pull the fuse i prefer to pull the meter tails out with very good vde 10kv pliers.

 

[Mac]

This happened to a spark either last year or year before, he ended up with a hand full of live fuse and it killed him.

I never pull the fuse i prefer to pull the meter tails out with very good vde 10kv pliers.

I was working with a bloke that done that,guess what happened.He never told me what he did and i got a nice belt.Lucky the customer was out of the house,tails were at head height.He wouldn't cut the seal.I ended up cutting the seal and you are allowed to cut the seal if it's an emergency.

 

[sparky paul]

I tend to not cut the fuse unless its newish,as above been doing it live for yonks and never had a problem yet.


just remember to remove the cables in the right order.

 

[chocolate]

I was changing meter tails between service head and meter when bloke from elec board came around to read the meter. Had put new tails in between head and meter, then meter to new isolator, but the main fuse was still out. The bloke didn't seem to care. Asked me to put the fuse in for a second in order to read the digital meter, then was quite happy for me to remove it again. Didn't ask at all about broken seals. Maybe i was very lucky.

 

[Risteard]

been doing it live for yonks and never had a problem yet.

Then you are in breach of the Electricity at Work Regulations.

 

[flukey]

Then you are in breach of the Electricity at Work Regulations.

well said risteard

 

[Des 56]

I was changing meter tails between service head and meter when bloke from elec board came around to read the meter. Had put new tails in between head and meter, then meter to new isolator, but the main fuse was still out. The bloke didn't seem to care. Asked me to put the fuse in for a second in order to read the digital meter, then was quite happy for me to remove it again. Didn't ask at all about broken seals. Maybe i was very lucky.

Why would you want to renew/upgrade the supply networks equipment
Better it cost them than you
Also its not very common to do so,they could prosecute you theoretically

Working live has never bothered me,but I would not encourage anybody to do so
We break the law when we do so.but I believe in individual responsibility and being careful whilst confident in carrying it out



Thats my excuse and Im sticking to it

 

[Mark2009]

Peter if you are in any dout as to weather to remove the suppliers cut out. dont be. Basicly the electricity at work act says that every installation has to be provided with a means of isolation for safe working. So if the supllier has provided a means of isolation ie a swich or the meter with a built in isolator (not designed to be switch under load) then all is fine but if they have only provided a cut out and meter then they can not argue why you have cut their seal and removed the fuse. what do they expect you to change the tails LIVE!?????
Hope this helps
Regards
AJ

Hi
If you change a fuse board do you have to change the tails.

Thanks

Mark

 

[Mac]

Hi
If you change a fuse board do you have to change the tails.

Thanks

Mark

If you change the CU,you should upgrade the tails to 25mm,only from the meter to the CU.

 

[ezzzekiel]

fit a isolator take existing tails and feed into top of isolator and run new 25mm from bottom to db that way if anything needs upgrading its dno side and you havent broke seal and gone inside meter.

 

[Mark2009]

If you change the CU,you should upgrade the tails to 25mm,only from the meter to the CU.

Hi
But on the advice of the NIC you cannot do this as this would mean breaking the LEB Clip which the NIC say you should not do.

Thanks

Mark

Hi
But on the advice of the NIC you cannot do this as this would mean breaking the LEB Clip which the NIC say you should not do.

Thanks

Mark

Hi
Can anyone tell me the best pace to buy a 17th Edition C/B

Thanks

Mark

fit a isolator take existing tails and feed into top of isolator and run new 25mm from bottom to db that way if anything needs upgrading its dno side and you havent broke seal and gone inside meter.

Hi
But we are defeating the object 16mm to 25mm as long as i upgrade to the same size board the old tails should be fine.

Thanks

Mark

 

[flukey]

Hi
But we are defeating the object 16mm to 25mm as long as i upgrade to the same size board the old tails should be fine.

Thanks

Mark

thats not you problem. your tails should be 25mm. dno can upgrade from meter so you dont have to break their seal. easiest option is as described

 

[Mark2009]

thats not you problem. your tails should be 25mm. dno can upgrade from meter so you dont have to break their seal. easiest option is as described

Hi
Could you explain how.

Thanks

Mark

 

[flukey]

exactly how ezze said. existing tails into isolator, new tails out to new cu

 

[Mac]

exactly how ezze said. existing tails into isolator, new tails out to new cu

If you do it that way then the existing tails will be live unless you CUT the seal on the cut out

 

[flukey]

If you do it that way then the existing tails will be live unless you CUT the seal on the cut out

quite right mac, ive already said i cut fuse seal, dont cut meter ones though so my tails would be dead
would never condone working live for any reason, very bad practice

 

[Mac]

Sorry mate,might be a thick,why would you cut the seal at the cut out and install an isolator.Should that not be down to the DNO.If you cut the seal on the cut out,why not the meter and just replace the tails from there.

 

[flukey]

Sorry mate,might be a thick,why would you cut the seal at the cut out and install an isolator.Should that not be down to the DNO.If you cut the seal on the cut out,why not the meter and just replace the tails from there.

most dno will believe there was no seal on the cut out, they dont when its the meter but then you should know that i leave meter alone and fit either a henley block or isolator so my installation conforms without having the hassle of getting dno to remove their seals then they can come at their leisure to connect into THEIR meter

 

[Mac]

most dno will believe there was no seal on the cut out, they dont when its the meter but then you should know that i leave meter alone and fit either a henley block or isolator so my installation conforms without having the hassle of getting dno to remove their seals then they can come at their leisure to connect into THEIR meter

I agree with you mate,but i have always replaced the tails from the meter if they were 16mm.

 

[Spudnik]

All the equipment up to and including the meter belongs to the DNO.

However, SOME or should i say most are "not bothered" if the seals are cut on the cutout, as long as you replace it.

They will "be very bothered" if you cut the seals on the meter, as this can raise their suspicions of tampering.

 

[Mac]

Yes i agree with what you say Jason,but there was a post a couple of months ago by an ex-DNO inspector stating you can cut the seals in an emergency.Changing a CU is an emergency,because of live working.I'll try and find the post.

 

[Des 56]

Its illegal to cut the seals,but in reality,they know ,we know and its generally accepted that the practice goes on and will continue
If they are that concerned,then in order for sanity to be maintained,they should be forced to supply an isolator after their meter,there would be no doubts to concern ourselves with then

 

[Mac]

Its illegal to cut the seals,but in reality,they know ,we know and its generally accepted that the practice goes on and will continue
If they are that concerned,then in order for sanity to be maintained,they should be forced to supply an isolator after their meter,there would be no doubts to concern ourselves with then

Totally agree mate