Minimum Qualifications Required

[Marvo]

Dont get me started.
I never said comedians did i, but dont get why its not written in more of a leymens terms.
BS7671 is mostly written in code language that most electricians would not have the intellect to understand or we would not be electricians in the first place would we, no offence. You need to much time to find the correct page even then everything is vague. Thats why so many of us turn to these sites. In my opinion it should not be made out of so many interpretation but more stone facts to follow. Interpretation only add to the confusion i think. Why do they bring out a new books every few years, just $$'s

All you've done in this post is highlight the difference between someone who's competent to work on electrical installations and someone who should be working under supervision. The regulations weren't written for 'laymen' to understand, they were written as guidance for professionals. If you can't find your way around the regulations book and you don't understand the interpretations of the regs you shouldn't be working unsupervised.

 

[Regs]

All you've done in this post is highlight the difference between someone who's competent to work on electrical installations and someone who should be working under supervision.

Your point is??

The regulations weren't written for 'laymen' to understand,

Well they should be

they were written as guidance for professionals.

Where does it say that in bs7671, making up rubbish

If you can't find your way around the regulations book and you don't understand the interpretations of the regs you shouldn't be working unsupervised.

Is that not the whole point of passing the 17th
Do what you do best and close the post

 

[Marvo]

There's none so blind as those who will not see.

 

[Engineer54]

OOH Dear handbags!

I am not going to get tangled in the pro's and con's of all of this, but i will voice my opinions in the good name of the forum.

I think the DIY forum is an excellent idea, i am more than happy to post and advise in there, and this is why. Over the years i have been on no end of forums looking for advice about no end of different things, and for the most part the advice given has been excellent, even when that advice was not was i was wanting to hear like "I suggest you contact a diesel specialist".

Why do Electricians see themselves as being above everyone else just because we did an Apprenticeship? We are not the only apprentice trained trade out there, and we are not the only trade who has people in it without formal qualifications.

Cheers...............

Howard

Correct, but then being an electricians is one of the very few trades where you really do ''Need'' both appropriate ''Qualifications'' AND a good deal of ''Experience'' to be able to work safely without putting clients/customers or their property at serious risk!!

When i first came into this industry the electrician in the field was probably the most respected tradesmen on site, that was also the case within industrial maintenance too.
Can't say that today can you, the industry is being de-skilled to the point where you're offered £8 or £9 per hour take it or leave it, from what i can see....

You can lay that firmly at the door of the scheme providers for allowing not only ill trained experience less so called DI's but then authenticating limited scope plumbers and kitchen fitters etc. (These being the very same organizations that were put in place to certify competency) and these buggers are actually taking work away from the qualified electricians!!

An Apprentice Trained and Qualified Electrician has in my opinion, Every Right to put himself above any of these jokers above, that think they are qualified, they damn well ''ain't''!! They shouldn't be allowed to be out there receiving monies from customers that have been hoodwinked into believing these fakes are in anyway qualified!!

If you notice, all the likes and Thanks put up on those threads that even remotely support these wannabe's in the industry. are virtually all fast track wannbe's themselves!! lol!!

 

[Mr Hehound]

Is that not the whole point of passing the 17th
Do what you do best and close the post

BS7671 is not the B&Q Big Book of DIY - its written the same as pretty much every technical manual you'll come across.

Any-who. What's really sad is that this whole short course / college and experience / apprenticeship from 16 yrs / only an electrician if you were born of a spark as was his father before him and can trace your family line back to Voltaire ******** takes up more space on here than actual technical / practical questions and advice.

(For what it's worth I avoid these threads like the plague, have no real hatred towards people retraining and my personal view is that a JIB Gold card = Electrician but not having one doesn't necessarily mean incompetance or laziness.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

BS7671 is not the B&Q Big Book of DIY - its written the same as pretty much every technical manual you'll come across.

Any-who. What's really sad is that this whole short course / college and experience / apprenticeship from 16 yrs / only an electrician if you were born of a spark as was his father before him and can trace your family line back to Voltaire ******** takes up more space on here than actual technical / practical questions and advice.

(For what it's worth I avoid these threads like the plague, have no real hatred towards people retraining and my personal view is that a JIB Gold card = Electrician but not having one doesn't necessarily mean incompetance or laziness.

OK..the wickes `good idea` leaflets then...

 

[Engineer54]

Originally Posted by Marvo
All you've done in this post is highlight the difference between someone who's competent to work on electrical installations and someone who should be working under supervision.

Your point is?? I think the point he's making is totally clear!!

The regulations weren't written for 'laymen' to understand,

Well they should be Oh Dear GOD ....are you for Real!!

they were written as guidance for professionals.

Where does it say that in bs7671, making up rubbish The only person talking rubbish here as far as i can see, is You!!

If you can't find your way around the regulations book and you don't understand the interpretations of the regs you shouldn't be working unsupervised.

Is that not the whole point of passing the 17th
Do what you do best and close the post
Any fool or his dog can pass the ''Open Book'' 17th exam Doesn't mean that you come even close to understanding it's complexities though, for that you need a thorough training, and a decent chunk of experience to go with it!!!!

You really don't have much of a clue at all do you!!

 

[Knobhead]

Alarm bells started ringing with me about ten / twelve years back interviewing industrial electricians, the standard seemed so low. As a company we didn’t require membership of a governing body, you came with you’re indentures and qualifications and proved yourself worthy.

The regulations were secondary to the need to know electrical theory. Without the theory to back you up you simply couldn’t do the job. The theory is the same, but it’s now so much easier with the information you can get on the internet.

The internet was a fall back, not the primary source of knowledge.


Now having seen how the rest of the trade has gone I despair. In a way the internet has undermined our once proud trade. Why do you have to know how something works, just get on you’re smart phone and someone will do the thinking for you. Hence me saying I’m all for passing on knowledge but only if it’s going to be used safely.

 

[coldyron]

An Apprentice Trained and Qualified Electrician has in my opinion, Every Right to put himself above any of these jokers above, that think they are qualified, they damn well ''ain't''!! They shouldn't be allowed to be out there receiving monies from customers that have been hoodwinked into believing these fakes are in anyway qualified!!

I'm going to be honest with you. A lot of people who do the apprenticeship straight from school do so because they're thick and not going to get anywhere in life so an apprenticeship is pretty much the difference between having a trade or working in HMV.

Some turn out quite well, others don't. Nowadays they seem to be a lot lazier than when I was doing my apprenticeship 10 years ago.

In fact I'd probably have more faith in someone who has ploughed his or her own redundancy money into learning a new skill over someone who left school with minimal qualifications and spent most of their time footing a ladder or making off plug tops.

So all this "An Apprentice Trained and Qualified Electrician has in my opinion, Every Right to put himself above any of these jokers above, that think they are qualified, they damn well ''ain't''!!" is balls to be honest.

 

[Octopus]

At what point did i say i would do the above??
Firstly i dont touch part p work
Secondly i would not be joining NICEIC in next few weeks, if you want to see my invoice for 390+78 vat = 468 i wii post it just to shut yoou the hell up site foreman

So if you don't touch Part P work, then why are you joining the NIC?

When people join this site, the ones that throw their teddies out of the pram, throw their weight around and LIE, normally get "recognised" - and BOY do you fit into this bracket.

 

[Regs]

You really don't have much of a clue at all do you!!

Try reading post 24 and 29 that is if you can read instead of writing utter dribble and nonsense that does even relate to what you have tried to read.

 

[Badged01]

I'm going to be honest with you. A lot of people who do the apprenticeship straight from school do so because they're thick and not going to get anywhere in life...... .

Ouch ...... fortunately I have very thick skin but I await some interesting replies!!!

 

[Regs]

So if you don't touch Part P work, then why are you joining the NIC?

When people join this site, the ones that throw their teddies out of the pram, throw their weight around and LIE, normally get "recognised" - and BOY do you fit into this bracket.

I can only assume that you and your small minority clicky boyfriend(s) on this site are kids by your silly posts? Go read post 24 & 29 like i told your boyfriend
Your boring me now

 

[Octopus]

Try reading post 24 and 29 that is if you can read instead of writing utter dribble and nonsense that does even relate to what you have tried to read.

And you are like a dog with a bone. Surely you must have considered its time to retreat.

As you wrote in post 24 different people come here, as you in particular don't like some of the responses, so you keep on digging.

Edit: written before I saw the post above, and again I note that when you are asked a question you can't give a simple direct answer. Hum.......

 

[Regs]

And you are like a dog with a bone. Surely you must have considered its time to retreat.

As you wrote in post 24 different people come here, as you in particular don't like some of the responses, so you keep on digging.

Edit: written before I saw the post above, and again I note that when you are asked a question you can't give a simple direct answer. Hum.......

Thats right like a dog with a bone, i want to be your worst nightmare, i want you to suffer and see how you like it. I dont touch part p at the moment thats not to say when i get NIC i won't is it, surely that is obvious!
Retreat?? are you kidding i've not started yet, not even warmed up

 

[Badged01]

i want to be your worst nightmare, i want you to suffer

Steady on there Regs, debate and lively banter is acceptable but personal attacks is starting to cross the boundary ....... there is a mod watching you somewhere!

 

[Regs]

Steady on there Regs, debate and lively banter is acceptable but personal attacks is starting to cross the boundary ....... there is a mod watching you somewhere!

Dont give if you cant take i was always taught.

 

[Octopus]

Thats right like a dog with a bone, i want to be your worst nightmare, i want you to suffer and see how you like it. I dont touch part p at the moment thats not to say when i get NIC i won't is it, surely that is obvious!
Retreat?? are you kidding i've not started yet, not even warmed up

In which case I refer you back to post #37

I've got work to do.

Oh, and by the way, this attitude is exactly what ruins this once great site.

 

[silverfox1]

I'm going to be honest with you. A lot of people who do the apprenticeship straight from school do so because they're thick and not going to get anywhere in life so an apprenticeship is pretty much the difference between having a trade or working in HMV.

Some turn out quite well, others don't. Nowadays they seem to be a lot lazier than when I was doing my apprenticeship 10 years ago.

In fact I'd probably have more faith in someone who has ploughed his or her own redundancy money into learning a new skill over someone who left school with minimal qualifications and spent most of their time footing a ladder or making off plug tops.

So all this "An Apprentice Trained and Qualified Electrician has in my opinion, Every Right to put himself above any of these jokers above, that think they are qualified, they damn well ''ain't''!!" is balls to be honest.

I will treat this post with the contempt it deserves.

 

[Zebra Stripe]

This is all so very odd, why should a British Standard be written like an idiots guide for domestic installations, thats not its intended purpose. A simplified version for domestic installation is called the On Site Guide, with its interpretations and standard circuit arrangements to help simplify BS7671 for the (mostly) standard domestic install. Lets be honest here, the vast majority of domestic work requires very little if any proper circuit design as experience or OSG will provide most of the info required. Imo domestic installation work is mostly pretty simple stuff and does not require apprentice trained electricians or indeed that much technical knowledge. Commercial or industrial is another mater.
As for the dumbing down of the trade, well take a look around you and open your eyes. This has been going on for a long time throughout society, its every where, people glued to a tv screen like zombies waiting to be told what to believe, what to buy and how to live.

 

[Tiny Spark]

I'm going to be honest with you. A lot of people who do the apprenticeship straight from school do so because they're thick and not going to get anywhere in life so an apprenticeship is pretty much the difference between having a trade or working in HMV.

Some turn out quite well, others don't. Nowadays they seem to be a lot lazier than when I was doing my apprenticeship 10 years ago.

In fact I'd probably have more faith in someone who has ploughed his or her own redundancy money into learning a new skill over someone who left school with minimal qualifications and spent most of their time footing a ladder or making off plug tops.

So all this "An Apprentice Trained and Qualified Electrician has in my opinion, Every Right to put himself above any of these jokers above, that think they are qualified, they damn well ''ain't''!!" is balls to be honest.

Sounds like personal experience.
Just because you had a pants mentor does not mean everyone did.
in fact I had a good apprenticeship, ime pretty well educated and I chose to become a apprentice because I wanted to.

When you consider most guys on here are apprentice trained or still apprentices you are not going to make any friends with stupid unfounded comments like that!

 

[guest119]

Post 65 has just been reported.
No need for personal stuff.

Boydy

 

[telectrix]

simple remedy. DON'T FEED THE TROLL.

 

[UNG]

I'm going to be honest with you. A lot of people who do the apprenticeship straight from school do so because they're thick and not going to get anywhere in life so an apprenticeship is pretty much the difference between having a trade or working in HMV.

Most of the thick apprentices I've come across never made the grade and couldn't pass the AM2

Some turn out quite well, others don't. Nowadays they seem to be a lot lazier than when I was doing my apprenticeship 10 years ago.

I think that went some way to killing off apprenticeships as they had no interest and the brighter school leavers are being pushed towards uni and getting a degree

In fact I'd probably have more faith in someone who has ploughed his or her own redundancy money into learning a new skill over someone who left school with minimal qualifications and spent most of their time footing a ladder or making off plug tops.

Throwing money at things seems to be the cure all attitude to any problem these days when hard work is mentioned

So all this "An Apprentice Trained and Qualified Electrician has in my opinion, Every Right to put himself above any of these jokers above, that think they are qualified, they damn well ''ain't''!!" is balls to be honest.

No matter how you try you cannot condense around 120 - 150 9 hour college days into a 5 week course that alone puts an apprentice trained spark above a Electrical Trainee

Thats right like a dog with a bone, i want to be your worst nightmare, i want you to suffer and see how you like it. I dont touch part p at the moment thats not to say when i get NIC i won't is it, surely that is obvious!
Retreat?? are you kidding i've not started yet, not even warmed up

You are one of the many reasons the police get the respect they actually deserve, with your obnoxious confrontational arrogance you actually need to step back and take a look at yourself your comments on here belie your limited training apparently everything is wrong with this industry because it doesn't suit YOU.

The regs have changed a number of times over the last 40 years and a hell of a lot of books have been bought and old ones binned it's just one of the many changes that have occurred along with the dumbing down of entry into the industry that means we have to read your drivel

People have a right to post their views/opinions etc rightly or wrongly in a public forum, we have a right to respond or ignore the posts as we see fit. What we don't have is the right to offend or belittle people because they are not Electricians and are posting in the Electricians forum asking for advice etc etc for whatever reason, this is what gets us a bad name.

People also need to back off and understand their questions are being ignored and not continue to bump their question or add an aggressive post to prompt an answer they don't want

This forum is run by a handful of people who put a hell of a lot of time and effort into it for no reward, it only takes a few snide remarks to undo all their hard work, so remember this the next time you choose to "have a go".

I think the DIY forum is an excellent idea, i am more than happy to post and advise in there, and this is why. Over the years i have been on no end of forums looking for advice about no end of different things, and for the most part the advice given has been excellent, even when that advice was not was i was wanting to hear like "I suggest you contact a diesel specialist".

Unfortunately some people believe they are beyond DIY level. When you were told to "contact a diesel specialist" did you kick off or did you accept the advice as some on here may learn something from your experience

Why do Electricians see themselves as being above everyone else just because we did an Apprenticeship? We are not the only apprentice trained trade out there, and we are not the only trade who has people in it without formal qualifications.

Because some don't know what a C&G 236, 2360, 2330 is and you don't get the qualification in a few days it usually results from having done an apprenticeship

This post is not aimed at any one particular person, nor is intended to offend, but some people need to grow up and show some maturity. The best trades people will always prevail, irrespective of their background.

And some need to understand and accept the level they are at and not take the word of someone who has just taken £4 or £5k off them and told them they are an electrician

Steady on there Regs, debate and lively banter is acceptable but personal attacks is starting to cross the boundary ....... there is a mod watching you somewhere!

I'm sure his surname is McCain as he certainly has a bags of chips on his shoulder

With a name like Regs and he doesn't like the regs what can you say

 

[Regs]

I'm going to be honest with you. A lot of people who do the apprenticeship straight from school do so because they're thick and not going to get anywhere in life so an apprenticeship is pretty much the difference between having a trade or working in HMV.

Some turn out quite well, others don't. Nowadays they seem to be a lot lazier than when I was doing my apprenticeship 10 years ago.

In fact I'd probably have more faith in someone who has ploughed his or her own redundancy money into learning a new skill over someone who left school with minimal qualifications and spent most of their time footing a ladder or making off plug tops.

Well said, sum it up excellent!

 

[Regs]

Post 65 has just been reported.
No need for personal stuff.

Boydy

Thats all i wanted to see thank you Boydy!. A perfect example of you guys or mostly girls like to give but you cant take
You've made my day

ps you will have to grow thicker skin in real life you wont survive on a site will you???

 

[Rockingit]

I think any blokes around you could comfortably avoid the need for thicker skin, as I think you'd most likely have a broken jaw before breakfast.

MODS - why is this jerk still allowed to roam free??

 

[Steve_P]

Look. You can all argue this until the cows are blue in the face. My mate Jake is the best electrician there is. He has been doing the job for 40 years and is still to join a scheme. He never took any exams, not even at school. The thing is that you don't know him and therefore have no right to comment on his ability. He may well take a 5 week course and in the process take some exams, but that would make him a Electrical Trainee and no one likes them coz they haven't got a clue.

 

[Silly Sausage]

Fellas, you have this facility available, make use of it!
http://www.electriciansforums.co.uk/profile.php?do=ignorelist

 

[DPG]

I can only assume that you and your small minority clicky boyfriend(s) on this site are kids by your silly posts? Go read post 24 & 29 like i told your boyfriend
Your boring me now

I think this post sums up the intellectual level of 'Regs' quite well. Perhaps I'm jumping to conclusions, but I'm guessing that he's on the young side, and didn't do very well at school. This is also backed up by his inability to use an apostrophe correctly (see 'Your' above). Daz

 

[Rockingit]

Look. You can all argue this until the cows are blue in the face. My mate Jake is the best electrician there is. He has been doing the job for 40 years and is still to join a scheme. He never took any exams, not even at school. The thing is that you don't know him and therefore have no right to comment on his ability. He may well take a 5 week course and in the process take some exams, but that would make him a Electrical Trainee and no one likes them coz they haven't got a clue.

I've not followed every post of every thread that's now been on this - frankly, life's too short - but it seems to me that people need to make the distinction between 'competent' and 'qualified'. Qualifications are not necessarily an indicator of competence (just look at the Electrical Trainee's!), though competence may be achieved THROUGH qualification. I'm more than prepared to accept at face value Steve that the guy you know is top rate (as I've not met him, how could I possibly pass judgement?!) as there are many avenues to learning, and if you don't want to sit exams, well, so be it. I think the difficulty comes in the 21st century when we now live in an evidence based culture, full of bits of paper trail to make us feel good. So, IF he is as competent as you say, and has managed to avoid getting embroiled in the petty red tape over the last four decades, then to be honest I say fair play to him. It's not a role model for people wanting to become sparks, I think we're all agreed on that, but if it's worked for him then I think those of us paying out hand over fist to the scams and for every next ticket that comes along could maybe pause for thought.

 

[spark 68]

I think this post sums up the intellectual level of 'Regs' quite well. Perhaps I'm jumping to conclusions, but I'm guessing that he's on the young side, and didn't do very well at school. This is also backed up by his inability to use an apostrophe correctly (see 'Your' above). Daz

Well Daz, he reckons he is a plod, or ex plod, with 17th edition and 2391 qualifications, but judging by the above intellect and previous posts and questions he is just a total bell end, a small one at that.

 

[Rockingit]

Well Daz, he reckons he is a plod, or ex plod, ...... he is just a total bell end, a small one at that.

Well, most ex/plod in my extensive experience on the subject are just that, so why be surprised?

 

[spark 68]

Well, most ex/plod in my extensive experience on the subject are just that, so why be surprised?

I am not

 

[UNG]

Thats all i wanted to see thank you Boydy!. A perfect example of you guys or mostly girls like to give but you cant take
You've made my day

ps you will have to grow thicker skin in real life you wont survive on a site will you???

Some words that spring to mind Pot, Kettle and Black you can't take it either so you are not best placed to comment with the cr4p you have posted to date

I think any blokes around you could comfortably avoid the need for thicker skin, as I think you'd most likely have a broken jaw before breakfast.

MODS - why is this jerk still allowed to roam free??

Don't know about a broken jaw could do with his fingers breaking to stop him posting all this drivel

 

[UNG]

Well, most ex/plod in my extensive experience on the subject are just that, so why be surprised?

I am not

You were obviously to intelligent to be a copper and saw sense and got out before you got down to the level of the rest

 

[guest119]

No response from Marvo or S yet but I hope the response is not to just close the thread because of one unwelcome troll.
Intrersting comments and debates lie ahead.

Boydy

 

[spark 68]

I wonder if he is/was a PCSO a Electrical Trainee of the plod world ?

 

[shanky887614]

Well Daz, he reckons he is a plod, or ex plod, with 17th edition and 2391 qualifications, but judging by the above intellect and previous posts and questions he is just a total bell end, a small one at that.

Definatly ex, with that attitude it is no wonder he no longer is with the police force.

Not everyone leaves school then starts an apprenticeship.

I left school and started A levels and decided sitting in an office wasn't for me so i had a look, in september of that year i Started 2330 at college while actively looking for an apprentaship.

I have been there for a year and why some of the old electricians work is dog rough it is usually safe and they definatly know exactly what they are doing

 

[Knobhead]

Steady on there Regs, debate and lively banter is acceptable but personal attacks is starting to cross the boundary ....... there is a mod watching you somewhere!

There's two watching him, pity we can't help.

 

[LeckyBill]

wot a thread i got bord reading halve way throu

guy just a wind up merchant

 

[GLENNSPARK]

wot a thread i got bord reading halve way throu

guy just a wind up merchant

you and him should be fine then...

 

[Sintra]

Ok after reading this thread Regs has got himself a nice long ban for trolling.

 

[Rockingit]

Ok after reading this thread Regs has got himself a nice long ban for trolling.

And we all know what happens to Policeman in prison.........

 

[guest119]

And we all know what happens to Policeman in prison.........

Touching his toes? :-------:
And I dont mean in the morning exercise routine. :bobby::troll:


Boydy

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Touching his toes? :-------:
And I dont mean in the morning exercise routine. :bobby::troll:


Boydy

well it could be whilst in the communal shower:

 

[UNG]

I find it quite funny he can read this while he stews

Post in haste repent while banned

 

[Guest55]

I wonder if he is/was a PCSO a Electrical Trainee of the plod world ?

the irony is that training for a plastic plod PCSO is actually less than 5 weeks.
;-)

sounds to me like this clown would get --- raped on a building site with rufty tufty contractors.
lol.

 

[Rockingit]

I find it quite funny he can read this while he stews

Post in haste repent while banned

Imagine his face at the sight of the miles and miles of postings about him in the Arms, then. I think that suggestion to, well, you all remember.....

 

[UNG]

Imagine his face at the sight of the miles and miles of postings about him in the Arms, then. I think that suggestion to, well, you all remember.....

But this isn't in the arms he never got that far