Part P

[madmac]

The Daily Star have allowed an advert to appear all last week which is proclaiming to train anyone up to be a fully qualified 17th edition electrician in only 70 days!!!
The SJIB was approached and asked about this and they say they DON'T recognise it. PHEW! However they do say that the English JIB DO recognise it and not only that will issue a grade card on completion!!! I think this is the slippery slope for the industry as a whole, and don't expect mobs to worry as it can only be good for their profit margins by using monkeys and paying them peanuts!

 

[Daytona955]

I thought to be FULLY qualified you needed X amount of years experience after certain courses for the JIB ?

 

[johnboy6083]

big sigh! its gona be us on site, who have to train these so called qualified electricians how to do their job. and they will no doubt be on the same money. ive got no problems helping people out and showing them something they haven't done or seen before, as i still ask when needed, but surely this cant be right? domestic work is one thing, but if the JIB are giving these people cards and grading them, then we will start seeing them on industrial and commercial sites, where i beleive more experience is needed. Its one thing working under a supervisor all the time, but these people will be expected to be able to work unsupervised.


what do you lads think?

 

[madmac]

Thanks lads my sentiments exactly, by the way nobody including myself is trying to stop people getting on in the world with regards to better jobs BUT these training centres are exaggerating about qualifications and experience needed simply to get bums on seats and make profits!!! They couldn't give a ---- about the industry standards and the guys doing it are only getting conned! And the guys doing these short-fast track courses can get off their high horses about sparks being angry because if the shoe was on the other foot what would they do?.........open arms and welcome all on-board to steal their jobs?......I don't think so!!!

 

[Daytona955]

I dont mean to offend as im new here and dont want to go against the grain but i believe when the law changed that electricians had to self cert their work if they forced in the law there were so many practicing electricians ( very good ones who had been at it decades ) with no quals the country that if they didnt invent the 5 day fast track there wouldnt have been enough left to go around if they all got the boot. Maybe these days its being abused though but im certain new law is coming in july of this year although when i asked Napit they reckoned they hadnt heard of any. Oh and i emailed the JIB 2 days ago to see where i stand with them with what ive done so far...awaiting response. Think you may find the daily star course can make you an electrical improver which sounds good to a client but its someone in training as im sure you all know.

 

[mike2790]

alrite fella's, i'm a recently qualified electrician and am awaiting the delivery of my JIB card. i live in the isle of man at the minute and this is where i have served my time. i have the 17th edition and 2330 and am actively looking into doing my 2391 qualification. in a few weeks i am moving back home to liverpool and looking to go part time self employed until i can build up enough work to go full time self employed. im a bit stuck as how to go about it and wondered if any of you guys could suggest anything as any advice would be greatly appreciated. mainly i will be looking to pick up work on the domestic/commercial scene and will need to be registered with a part p scheme for the domestic side of things. yet to be part p registered under a scheme i need to provide evidence of work i have done to an investigator which would mean i will have done the work without part p registration. its a catch 22 situation whereby in this instance i will either have to work without part p or not work at all. or am i just being 'tim, nice but dim' about things. it seems to me that for all us sparks who want to do things the right way, theres a lot of hurdles, yet theres still monkeys out there wiring 32 ring circuits in black and red 1.5 t&e. any advice regarding the transition from cards-in to self-employed would be greatly appreciated too. looking forward to some replys.
cheers
michael

 

[toto]

I take it someone attendinga 70 day course wouldn't be able to self certify doemstic work on conmpleteition?!

 

[lauriehurman]

70 day course? - No, a 17 (yes seventeen) day course will get you 5 day introduction to being a "domestic installer", a 4 day introduction to Part P, 2382 and 2392.
You then have to apply to become a member of one of the schemes to self certify your work.

It seems to me that there are two things to say about the situation;
The above courses will cost you about £2000 plus accommodation. That's quite an investment and commitment by anyone.
and - in order to become a member of one of the schemes you have to be inspected. That means two examples of you installations and your office set up and bookkeeping. As Mike points out in order to do those two jobs you have to inform the local authority building control and pay for them to inspect your work to make it legal.

I think it's fair enough for experienced Sparkys to say if they think that the situation will have an effect on standards and safety. I am much less sympathetic to people who appear to just be complaining that a dilution of the workforce will lead to lower wages.

Laurie

 

[Daytona955]

Hey Mike. I found myself similar but have been lucky enough to find some work for the company i did the course on wiring up their new plumbing training centre . However you can do work in your own house if easier and be assessed there. All you need is a friend wanting 2 new circuits..ie downlights and a socket. I think its a test of you and your compidence more than what you just wired up mate.

 

[mike2790]

cheers daytona, the CU in my parents needs doing anyway so thats one of the jobs out the way, im sure i can find something else i can work my magic on around their place.

 

[Xtrojans]

hello all, quick thought on part p.
its a good growing thing and slowly embeding in our electrical way of life.
its costing me more in money and time and so called sparks who are not compling are genrally under cutting.
ive been very cheap and fair.

so as long as we try our best as proffessionals, we may lead part p for authorities to up hold and enforce.

 

[DurhamSparky]

doubt it..!

 

[Xtrojans]

lets start now, list these companies that do this practice on this forum.
Be fair and honest also the guys who don't comply with part p.
Check on companies house for all those dodgy builders you've had to go and sort out unregestered sparks.

 

[Phil]

lets start now, list these companies that do this practice on this forum.
Be fair and honest also the guys who don't comply with part p.
Check on companies house for all those dodgy builders you've had to go and sort out unregestered sparks.

lets Not name companies on an open forum.

 

[DurhamSparky]

companies house only list LTD companies!!!

 

[tazmantic]

Hi joined today and was going to ask about what courses I needed to do work on my own house but think Ill just read more tomorrow for the fear of being shot down in flames..... :0(

 

[HEC]

Hi Don't be frightened to ask questions, no matter how trivial they are. Every one has been in this position before, just some of us can't remember.

Re your question. Unless you are Part P registered you can only do certain things to your electrical system at home. They mainly come under Non-notifiable jobs, which to be frank is quite little.
You can relace your socket facias with like for like or you can replace your lights. you cannot alter or add a circuit.

You will find that there will be people on here that will shoot this reply down but in essence, what I have said is right.

If you have the competance you can do any job you wish as long as if its notifiable you pay your planning office and notify the job. they will inspect your certificate and test readings.

Hec

 

[electromonkey]

Great post DurhamSparky.

Something I have noticed here reading a load of these posts is that there is an assumption that because somebody has passed the required examinations and have been signed off by one of our assessment bodies (NICEIC, NAPIT etc) that they are able to get out there and start signing off work left right and centre.
Legally they can of course but there is a big difference between understanding how an electrical installation works and understanding building regs such as Part P and actually going in to people's homes and carrying out work. If you were to take a consumer unit change as an example, sometimes they are a nice straight forward simple jobs, other times they are a complete nightmare and require skill, knowledge, understanding but probably most of all, experience.
I can't help think that if someone isn't fully versed in the understanding of Part P, Certification and Notification then you fall short of what is required at dare I say it, a basic level and should in no way even attempt to carry out electrical work.

This isn't a personal attack on anyone here. I think it is a failure of the system more than anything.

My advice to anyone who has picked up qualifications but has had very little hands on work is to go and get yourself some experience first. You may feel you are getting under paid but I can assure you, it is a case of the short term loss for the long term gain.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

Hi Don't be frightened to ask questions, no matter how trivial they are. Every one has been in this position before, just some of us can't remember.

Re your question. Unless you are Part P registered you can only do certain things to your electrical system at home. They mainly come under Non-notifiable jobs, which to be frank is quite little.
You can relace your socket facias with like for like or you can replace your lights. you cannot alter or add a circuit.

You will find that there will be people on here that will shoot this reply down but in essence, what I have said is right.

If you have the competance you can do any job you wish as long as if its notifiable you pay your planning office and notify the job. they will inspect your certificate and test readings.

Hec

I'm afraid what you have said is not right....Anyone can add to or alter an existing circuit within their home as long as it does not involve kitchens and bathrooms,or external wiring not fixed to the external fabric of the building.
In essence anyone can add sockets/lights to an existing circuit in their lounge,bedrooms,hallway,outside as long as attatched to the building etc ,with no requirements under part P.

Building Regulations - Part P FAQs - IET Electrical

 

[tazmantic]

Hi HEC thanks for the reply, so heres how I stand as Ive put in my newbe post Ive been a maintenance sparky for the last 20 years (including my 4 year apprenticeship) but this has mainly been in factories machine fault finding, single and 3 phase systems and instalations but Ive never done domestic apart from the odd socket change etc for family, but the time has come that Id like to get up to speed with the latest regs to do with houses etc. This is not so I can rush into house bashing cus Ill be the first to admit I have not got the experience I just want to further my knowledge and get some more qualifications and then go from there. I recently did a PAT testing course (paid for by me as company is too tight lol) and that was more for personal gain etc..


So thats it really just wonder what courses would be best? Im going to do the 17th for sure (my cost again) and just wondered if it was worth doing inspection and testing and also a part P course, I have read at the start of this post about part P certificates etc but as Im not sure of the latest building regs (and I dont mind admitting that) would it be worth doing, my original plan was to do a few courses, get some certificates and do work on my own house maybe even friends and do all the tests my self not needing to contact building regs but have since found out you need to join a competent person scheme and as Im not planning on running my own business am not planning on doing that..........

So any feedback would be good..........Thanks