Part P

[telectrix]

My m8 has been a sparky for 40 odd years so he is taking me under his wing for the next year but he is not up to date with test he just does work and his pal tests and passes it etc I dont know the crack there but works for him. I just want basics so i can pass and test my own work. I would never do anything i thought would hurt someone( i dont fancy going to jail or killing someone) moving sockets running cables etc nowt to much. i agree with everyone on here about ppl that just jump on part p and go yeah baby im a sparky etc ( same as me doing 4 years plastering and someone does 4days and tells me its the same) but they can plaster but they are not at the same level I'm If you understand my point. Just want to be safe and pass my own work with out doing 4 years or more at college and im not wanting a micky mouse ticket at the same time. I will always call a sparky if its past my skill level not chancing others or my own life.

working with your mate for a year or so will give you more knowledge than any short training course. be an idea to spend a bit of time with the tester/s so you get an idea of what's involved. IMO, a good approach to the job, coupled with practical experience is worth more thasn any bit of paper qualification going.

 

[woofwoof]

If you speak to the NICEIC they will tell you the minimum requirement is 17edition and Part P (or DISQ) these courses will only prove you know the basics, being time served is the only true way of being an electrician.

Hope this helps

After specking to them Eliminator guy you only need 17th Ed and then you pay them £379 plus vat(a year) for them to test 2 of your jobs and then thats it. You dont need the part p the bloke i was taking to said its being changed/scraped soon anyways. So thank you again for the info to that company like really thank you saved me a load of money.

 

[ELIMINATOR GUY]

New to me that one, things change all the time, I have no faith in NICEIC or NAPIT or the rest, All that is required is "work must be carried out by a competent person" and that's it.
To register with one of them just means you can use their logo on your van and website, so not worth over £400 per year for that to me.
I'm sure some guys will disagree, but we all have are own opinions.

At the end of the day, you just need to be 100% sure you know what you are doing and it's going to be SAFE !

There is no substitute for experience so if you can get someone to work along side for 12 months, then you will gain more than any £400 logo

regards

Eliminator

 

[h4r00n]

Currently I am studying for my EAL 2330 Level 2. Before reading this thread I was about to embark upon the 'part p' course the college has to offer. The lecturers are so persistant to get us onto this course because apparently it might soon change to a full nvq which will cost a few grand and take a year to complete, whereas the 'part p' course costs £900. This part p course is for 10 days, 1 day a week.

A few classmates have signed up for this course but I have been sceptical as to whether it is a waste of money or not. If part p course proves competency then I would rather voluntarily work for 10 weeks rather than study for 10 days. Surely passing the NICEIC or ELECSA application process including the 2 observations will prove that you are competent.

I think what I will do is complete my eal 2330 level 2 and possibly level 3 this September, meanwhile complete the 17th edition regs course which lasts around 4 days. (Although I do not understand why I need to complete this 17th Regs course because all I learn at 2330 is around the newer 17th edition anyway.

I can then contact a part p regulator such as elecsa, napit or niceic, pay them around £400 and get them to inspect 2 of my works. Then become registered with them and take things from there.

So EAL 2330 L2 and 17th edition should be enough to get a PART P REGULATORY BODY to inspect my work and take me on. I don't want to folk out £900 for a 'part p course' at college. I feel its a scam as there is no actual qualification nor certification. Perhaps it is for those that cannot get practical experience?

What do you guys reckon? Does this sound sensible?

 

[reefagrim]

Part P the industry's champion ! however on a personal note i do find it a bit of a con am i just saying this! . no i will say after working for the NICEIC for 5 years as a Part P assessor even they know its a licence to print money and with the ESC warning everyone of imcompetant electricans its doom and gloom but just so you know . The ESC are a charity set up by the NICEIC and if you look closly your find many members of the establishment working there also same goes with the IET with former NICEIC staff currently working there. Says a lot the watchdogs whom look over us are entwined very much to each other and serving their needs. This is what i find wrong .. For all the time i worked as a part p assessor i will say that i found that there are some exellent electricians out there doing a good job but on the other hand there are some terrible electricains out there who shouldnt be allowed to wire a plug. The effect that part p had on the industry was that anyone who could fulfill a set number of questions and that the had a understanding of the electrical regulation could be passed and allowed to undertake domestic work ... The problem is that the training centers have admitted that they activly tell the students the answers and teach them not so much the regulations and the pratices of the electrical trade but more to be able to pass the exam. how someone with little trade experience could be deemed as competant as me in 2 weeks i find very worrying after all when i started i had to undertake a 4 year apprenticeship followed with number of exams am1 am2 2367 2368 etc etc ( ps if you llok of the city and guild web site your find that the 2367/8 no longer corrispond to electrical worried about your career now?)But also the part p scheme has its faults and its failures it was set up to ensure that the trade is governed not so much correctly just governed. how many of you have entered into a premise and found non compliant work that has been undertaken scine the part p scheme came to pass. Building control are not watching to see everything is being done correctly the actual document part p refers to the bs7671 so much that it should just have the line ( do what it say's in the bs7671 ) they effectivly sort of washed their hands of it and therefore let the industry run it .. how many building control persons actually know the regs and part enough to make you feel that your doing the right thing . After all if they turn up you want them gone asap and they dont want to get to involved unless its actually staring them in the face.Hence the governing bodies all get their slice of the pie .. every year a reminder is sent with the invoice before hand and arrangments to have your visit are made . every year a assessor turns up and goes through your paperwork asks you the same questions and ticks the same boxes all this just incase you have become incompetant ! worrying that the industry feel that electricians who have taken so long passing exams should forget everything within a year and this is the con .... the industry has made it impossible to work with out being associated with a governing body for if you do the esc says your working illegally which is not the truth its only illegal if your not competant try and make that stand up ? in the real world especially now money which should make the world turn is not able as the sums of money demanded to be able to work to prove and to adhere to part are going up daily and therefore your cost and invoices go up to . and where is the electricians union ? oh they were removed. Just to say in al my time i have assessed sole traders and companies i have encountered work carried out by approved electrical contractors 8 out 10 times this work is some of the worst seeing that the larger the company the less time they have to undertake quality checks. there have been on a number of occassions where i have reported individuals and approved company's to the governing bodies that represent them only to be told that its nothing to do with them or they will look into it ( which they wont) just how many have been prosicuted in all no way enough!! these make the niceic no more than a toothless tiger A better set up and a fairer set up would be to allow a assessment to be taken every 3 to 5 years and a revision of their costings the implication of all the extra exams to be encountered on the way should be included into the trainning schemes and or reduced for the members Biggest worries for part p for me however are always the word competentence and regulationshow many effectivly know and actually undertake the calculations required to under take a job to ensure that the circuit has the right size cable the right lenght within the right temperatures and will perform as expected within the right zone and to the end of the job the test result how many know what they mean and what they can tell you about the installation ie does a zs correct reading mean that the cable is ok? etc its ok being able to do the job but what about the rest of it and there was never enough of this emphasised on a 2 week course in my eyes part p has managed to effectivly kill the trade by allowing the incompetent become competent and the overal charges imposed Now i work again for myself within the commercial and industry side to afraid to do domestic in case i see the frighting electrics of the past but even so would you believe it that in the industry's eye i am too incompetent to do domestic not because i am a ex assessor of part p or i have trained electricians taught them , undertaken nearly every exam concieved passed every assessment but purely because i am not registered as a part p opperative so many of you out there are doing a great job and really you should be rewarded by being given a break but there some who really consider a different trade

 

[russyb]

im new to testing and iv got the ECA assessing me on my first test i feel confident and i have just done the course could u give me any tips for what they look for apart from that im compotent many thanks

 

[hydeselec]

nice work

 

[reefagrim]

i started to write a really long winded ay to get through a asseesment but i decided that is not the best way to be helpful i can teach anyone how to test correctly and what the regulation reg with part p in a few hours but then i have been doing this for years .
no the best way is to let you do most of the work for you will remember it better
i will say when he arrives put the kettle on offer a drink and be welcoming do be nervous either stay calm and relaxed. you will as a first timer be subject to be critisized use this as a constructive rather than negative ok you did it wrong ask him why and how to make sure its not done again be aware of the regs the ability of the certification do you totally understand why your ticking the boxes what do the reading mean ? the information is within the regs , on site guide and guide notes part p itself has some information to the rear .
remember that its a assessment on part p and part p is a legal binding document the regs is not also to a member of the club ( eca , niceic napit etc ) they have their own criterias that you have to adhere to make sure these are explained to you
you need to take some time and read remember the figures see the equations use them they really do help
lastly the assessor even though he is there to assess you you are able to gather his knowledge ask him questions
if you want to know something specific let me know
i hope this helps

 

[johnboy6083]

Can i ask, are most of the assessors that you knew, actually behind the scheme, or are they just doing itbecause they are told to?

 

[russyb]

yes this is a big help many thanks

 

[Tonkatoy27]

I'm with ELECSA and have got my 17th but I certaintly didn't pay £200 odd quid for the course. I paid £80 quid for an "on-line course" then just paid the exam fee. Even so, I'd bet no experienced, compentant sparky could fail the exam even if they haven't taken the "17th course" By the time you add the course fee to loss of earnings it'll work out to cost you between £500 and £800 quid!

 

[huntos33]

looking at joining a scheme as soon as really, not got the 17th yet so may have to sort that out first as the op states you need your 17th, although the elecsa website says it is preferred but not a requirement, if I have read it right

I am awaiting my elecsa assesment on the 6th of june, not got my 17th course untill the 24th june, i think they will sign you off on the grounds you are booked on a course with the cert to follow

 

[trev]

Even so, I'd bet no experienced, compentant sparky could fail the exam even if they haven't taken the "17th course"

We have a pretty clever german shepherd, I reckon if I could teach him to read he could get through the 17th without any further training.

 

[joelea]

Don't won't to join a scheme, seems like a rip off to me, but in Cornwall the ****king council charge £172 for notifable works, every single notifiable job. Don't seem to have much choice. NICEIC or NAFIT, pick your thief

 

[trev]

Don't won't to join a scheme, seems like a rip off to me, but in Cornwall the ****king council charge £172 for notifable works, every single notifiable job. Don't seem to have much choice. NICEIC or NAFIT, pick your thief

South Tyneside have a sliding scale starting at £250 mate so 172 is a bargain. Still 2 notifiable jobs and your scam fee is covered

 

[trev]

Don't won't to join a scheme, seems like a rip off to me, but in Cornwall the ****king council charge £172 for notifable works, every single notifiable job. Don't seem to have much choice. NICEIC or NAFIT, pick your thief

By the way mate the F bomb is frowned upon in open forum

 

[joelea]

Someone told me that it starts at £22 in Southampton

 

[Dave 85]

You are an employers dream. You'll under cut any qualified spark, you'll do anything for a wage, you've also admitted that people who do these watered down courses are not the complete electrician! This is what the right wing/Tory elite have been trying to achieve for years......breaking the controls of employment the electricians and their union had and bring the "free market" into the fold! Safety will be compromised due to job pressures and so will quality of workmanship.

Hey man.... Don't knock the right wing/Tory elite they will be the saviours of this once glorious nation. It's you safety obsessed lefties/unionists with your criminal labour government who have F'd the country beyond all recognition....

 

[joelea]

Sorry for dropping the F bomb. It just annoys me. There does not seem to be away around forking out shed loads of dosh. From reading around forums it seems that the so called 'inspection' is often very brief and not worth the effort.

 

[joelea]

I have applied for NICEIC registration and now need to find 2 new circuits to put in to complete registration. I have only found one such job so far. Can't publicise myself as 'Registration Pending' so all I've got is word of mouth and all the jobs I'm getting from friends and friends of friends are minor works. Catch 22