Borrowed neutral question.

[GLENNSPARK]

The big R mate (and i aint talking about resistance here either).....revenue £££££££££££££££

 

[Knobhead]

OK, lets assume we’ve resolved the shared neutral problem. I’m going to throw a peble (rock) in the water and see where the ripples finish. You now have in your hallway a switch that has two separate live feeds to it. It should be identified, now do you put a warning lable on it? Mrs. Brown isn’t going to be impressed if you do, it doesn’t match the wallpaper.

Just remember Mrs. Brown has neighbours, her approval could lead to more local work for you. P**s her off and you’ve s**t it!

I’m just glad I’ve only ever done 4 houses in my life, they go me stressed out! Just pass my sledge hammer, I’ll stick to my favourite industrial stuff.

View attachment 7360

 

[oxocube]

You now have in your hallway a switch that has two separate live feeds to it. It should be identified, now do you put a warning lable on it?

Nothing wrong with a switch with two separate lives.
It does not need identifying.
And it does not need a warning label.

The only warning label required at any light switch, including an industrial one, is for the presence of 400v.

 

[Knobhead]

So you isolate the downstairs lights and remove the switch (the switch is downstairs). You then get a belt off the upstairs lights, that’s OK is it?

 

[telectrix]

TBH, as a 2 gang switch in a hall operates on both the downstairs and upstairs circuits, t'would be normal procedure to test for safe isolation before inserting fingers. i personally would make a note in the back box of 2 "live" feeds.

 

[Des 56]

Whilst we are on these issues of domestic warnings :devilish:


What about my warning sticker for the consumer unit kindly constructed by brains-lans
http://www.electriciansforums.net/c...cal/37364-old-colours-again-3.html#post348630

What with one lighting circuit and stickers on the 2-gang and the consumer unit, we will have achieved Nirvana for the householder,where will it end, and why should it

 

[topquark]

TBH, as a 2 gang switch in a hall operates on both the downstairs and upstairs circuits, t'would be normal procedure to test for safe isolation before inserting fingers. i personally would make a note in the back box of 2 "live" feeds.

That was one of the first ever shocks I had about 30 years ago, being a newly formed muppet at the time! :banghead:

 

[Knobhead]

You say in industry it’s not a requirement to draw attention to possible danger, I beg to differ.
Under the EWA it is a mandatory requirement to identify multiple feeds to a panel or switch.
You’d love a system like this. it only shows the interconnects between two 11KV substations, there were 17. Most with 550V, 440V and 220V DC.

View attachment 7361

 

[GLENNSPARK]

You say in industry it’s not a requirement to draw attention to possible danger, I beg to differ.
Under the EWA it is a mandatory requirement to identify multiple feeds to a panel or switch.
You’d love a system like this. it only shows the interconnects between two 11KV substations, there were 17. Most with 550V, 440V and 220V DC.

View attachment 7361

I think they are dropping that on the amendment though tony: warning signs of the presence of 2 different voltages in the same enclosure................

 

[onions1066]

telectrix please put your hand on your heart and say with a straight face you write in the back of a 2 gang switch box, if you dont know there are 2 supplies at the 2 gang switch at the bottom of the stairs you shouldnt be taking the switch off in the first place.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Look....knock the supply off to the circuit feeding lamp/s in question and then using a voltage indicator test strappers IN BOTH DIRECTIONS. If theres still a voltage there then you know...........

 

[telectrix]

Nah, mate. i use my trusty neon driver. LOL. seriously, though, there's not always 2 circuits there.the landing light could be on the downstairs circuit. it's a case of if we know what we're doing we check and check again.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

I never just dive in though tel as you only get warned as you get a belt but some posting on here.......I mean have they any concept of safe isolation?........

 

[Deleted member 9648]

So is anyone here...(Tony)? seriously suggesting that it's ok to knock off an mcb labelled downstairs lights and just assume all the downstairs lights/switches will be dead??.....Thats why we have safe isolation proceedures and voltage testers....anyone just assuming deserves a belt.

 

[onions1066]

so wirepuller are you saying you should label it or you should follow safe isolation procedure or both?

 

[GLENNSPARK]

You NOTIFY IT at the board or on a pir form or an installation cert as this should be the first port of call to anyone (including competent persons) before undertaking any work to be carried out...........

 

[telectrix]

i suupose it's each to his own. if , for example, i fit a FCU with a 3A or 5A fuse (say for security lights) i always label the FCU "3A FUSE" (or 5A).

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Borrowed neutrals etc are a departure from the current edition of BS7671 so you would put this down in the comments box wouldn`t you?........

 

[onions1066]

you note it on a PIR, you code it. What as? you do not need to notify it at all. so you are telling me that on every PIR you do or installation cert you note that there is a 2 gang switch with 2 feeds! i've been through assesments with NIC and ECA, and this has never been mentioned. It is just one of them things that does not need to be done. And you cant say they wern't thorough because they even noted down that i should not be brown sleeving the switchwire on smoke detectors and that was about 10 years ago and i still see people doing it now.

 

[onions1066]

telectrix that is fair enough because you are giving somebody/homeowner information they need to know because changing a fuse is within there capabilitys, but anybody who is removing the switch should have sufficient knowledge.