Consumer unit

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peevee

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Following an EICR I was asked to have fitted a consumer unit in my rented property.

I subsequently received the bill for £672 and paid. For this sort of outlay and given that as a landlord it's my responsibility if anything goes wrong I asked for the guarantee for the unit installed. Neither the agent nor the contractor are able (or are unwilling) to provide this. I was simply sent a link to a website which didn't even specify the type of unit installed.

I've no proof of purchase, no proof of the type of unit installed and whether it's an approved model so if it's faulty I'm likely to have to cough up again.

Surely this isn't normal ? Who do I contact to get satisfaction ?

Thanks
 
you should have received a certificate for the work. is this in the UK or in france? if UK it should be notified to BC.
 
OP has gone.hopefully to get his brownie out of mothballs.
 
In France once the Electrical supplier has installed the service head and cut out, beyond that the electrical installation is the responsibility of the owner, the only time this gets inspected is on the sale of the property when a diagnostic is performed, which is just a tick list, normally performed by a non electrician, even though it is an official document carried out by an qualified registered diagnostic Immobilier which does not translate well. (Estate Agent Diagnostic) I think its supposed to mean "Registered Sales Diagnostic Agent"

There is no requirement for EICR's or any other type of certification beyond first installation which can be achieved with one socket and one light.
 
I'm guessing the OP lives in France but the works were carried out at a rented property in the UK.
 
Risteard said:
They must have been invoiced to have made payment surely?
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That would generally be expected, but they mention having no proof of purchase. It would be helpful if the OP were to clarify whether this means no receipt or a receipt that doesn't make clear precisely what components were used.

If it's the latter, I'd consider there to be no grounds for concern.
 
nicebutdim said:
That would generally be expected, but they mention having no proof of purchase. It would be helpful if the OP were to clarify whether this means no receipt or a receipt that doesn't make clear precisely what components were used.

If it's the latter, I'd consider there to be no grounds for concern.
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The OP has no proof of purchase because he did not purchase it. Any future claim would need to be made against the one who provided and installed it.
 
Westward10 is right so I'm not able to take a photo of the unit personally. I had a receipt but no detail, I quote "Supplied and fit consumer unit"
In response to Risteard, the issue is that the company only gives a 12m guarantee. Not only is this a bit short but what if they go out of business or change their legal status ? Don't you think that paying out so much and being personally accountable for the quality of the unit merits a bit more info. Why are they so coy about being open about this unless they were bulk-bought via an oriental website ?
 
peevee said:
Westward10 is right so I'm not able to take a photo of the unit personally. I had a receipt but no detail, I quote "Supplied and fit consumer unit"
In response to Risteard, the issue is that the company only gives a 12m guarantee. Not only is this a bit short but what if they go out of business or change their legal status ? Don't you think that paying out so much and being personally accountable for the quality of the unit merits a bit more info. Why are they so coy about being open about this unless they were bulk-bought via an oriental website ?
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Most companies will only issue a 12 month guarantee. But that does not affect your statutory rights as a consumer. In England, you have up to 6 years to pursue a claim for an inherent fault. You would have to pursue this claim through whomever your "contract" (verbal or otherwise) was made with. This may in fact be the letting agent, or the electrical contractor hired by the letting agency.
 
Thanks loz2754, It's a bit more reassuring but I'd still like to know how I go about a claim if this occurs. It might sound like I'm overreacting but I get the impression that the only loser out of all this is the owner who has to cough up. The tenant is protected by law, the contractor hides behind a short-term guarantee and the agent sits on the fence
 
Most consumer units do come with a 'manual' - albeit often only one piece of paper - which may well detail whatever guarantee they offer against manufacturing defects in their product - They are supposed to be left with the consumer unit on installation for the user, but never get looked at. I try to ensure they are left on site.

Fortunately defects are fairly rare, and should have been picked up on install - the certificate is proof that the installation was tested and working to the current standards at time of install.

There will also I presume have been a notification to Building Control under Part P (If the property is in England) which is a declaration by the installer that things have been installed to the relevant building regulations. That may take a little longer to come through but should give you some peace of mind that things are as they should be,

Not sure whether it is the same with all schemes, but the NICEIC in theory covers the notifiable work for 6 years from the date of install, and should cover the costs of correcting any faults if not done correctly.

Though warranties don't cover external influences like surges etc. if you have the two relevant certificates then you should have covered yourself in terms of your liability to maintain a safe installation.
 
The electrician will guarantee the work Peevee. A consumer unit is not one item but several, and there are other things to consider like tails, glands and any work required to bring the installation to a condition that a board change can go ahead.

As a responsible landlord, you would have used a qualified electrician registered on the CPS register Home - https://www.electricalcompetentperson.co.uk/ He/she will put right any problems that arise and by using someone from a scheme you can rest assured that they are fully insured.

Relax.
 
peevee said:
Thanks loz2754, It's a bit more reassuring but I'd still like to know how I go about a claim if this occurs. It might sound like I'm overreacting but I get the impression that the only loser out of all this is the owner who has to cough up. The tenant is protected by law, the contractor hides behind a short-term guarantee and the agent sits on the fence
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I'm not sure what guarantee / warranty you are expecting could it be 5 or 10 years would you pay for a yearly or 2 yearly check on your installation to maintain your warranty like you do on a new vehicle, I very much doubt you would as you appear to be complaining about the cost of the CU, was the this work organised by a letting agent and did they take their %age adding to the cost
andyb said:
As a responsible landlord, you would have used a qualified electrician registered on the CPS register Home - https://www.electricalcompetentperson.co.uk/ He/she will put right any problems that arise
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I don't know why people keep on peddling this after seeing some of the posts on here the CPS is an embarrassment to this industry
 
UNG said:
I'm not sure what guarantee / warranty you are expecting could it be 5 or 10 years would you pay for a yearly or 2 yearly check on your installation to maintain your warranty like you do on a new vehicle, I very much doubt you would as you appear to be complaining about the cost of the CU, was the this work organised by a letting agent and did they take their %age adding to the cost

I don't know why people keep on peddling this after seeing some of the posts on here the CPS is an embarrassment to this industry
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And I don't know why people keep on pedaling using unregistered un vetted electricians UNG, some of the posts on here regarding work done by handymen and chancers are an embarrassment to this industry.

For what it's worth, I was not 'peddling' anything, you do what you like. I pay to have my business checked annually by NAPIT, they check I have all the necessary insurances, qualifications, up to date publications, test equipment, knowledge of the regs and they inspect my work. All being well I go onto the CPS list. Now, by no means perfect but it's better than what was there before. Sure there are rogues out there, but as a layman with no electrical experience and not knowing any electricians, what's the best way to source someone to change my CU?.

What’s your message to any youngsters just getting into the industry? ‘You don’t need to bother with all that registration and red tape rubbish, just wing it’

I don’t think you'd say that.
 
That's a good point, I will have to look up how qualified a letting agent has to be and the required professional indemnity insurance against recommendations for contractors, if recommended by them they must be liable for the standard of work!
 
Lots of codicils in these type of contracts, would have to see the contract between the letting agent and the property owner to be sure, but any advice given by any letting agent must make them liable for the contractors performance, but not necessarily for the standard of work, especially if the letting agent asks the property owner to sign and accept the quotation.
 
The point I was trying to make is, the consumer unit as fitted is a construct of the electrician. Sure the consumer unit as bought will have a warranty but the 1st thing the sparky will do is knock holes in it, he will then fit other items such as mcbs, rcbos and maybe other things. It is a device made by him and he will guarantee it. If a device fails, the electrician will replace it under warranty.

I’d be interested to know if the OP demands the receipts for the various parts when he has work done on his car in case the mechanic goes out of business.

I will say however, I think for the electrician to say that the work is guaranteed for 1 year is a bit poor. Fine to say that the parts will be covered by the manufacturer's warranty, but the work itself should be covered for life. By this I mean if I’ve done something wrong and it comes to light, I will go and put it right whenever. If an electrician fits an mcb poorly, let's say he fit it to the busbar incorrectly and it starts to burn, he can’t really say ‘I fitted that 2 ½ years ago mate so it’s out of guarantee’.
 
andyb said:
The point I was trying to make is, the consumer unit as fitted is a construct of the electrician. Sure the consumer unit as bought will have a warranty but the 1st thing the sparky will do is knock holes in it, he will then fit other items such as mcbs, rcbos and maybe other things. It is a device made by him and he will guarantee it. If a device fails, the electrician will replace it under warranty.

I’d be interested to know if the OP demands the receipts for the various parts when he has work done on his car in case the mechanic goes out of business.

I will say however, I think for the electrician to say that the work is guaranteed for 1 year is a bit poor. Fine to say that the parts will be covered by the manufacturer's warranty, but the work itself should be covered for life. By this I mean if I’ve done something wrong and it comes to light, I will go and put it right whenever. If an electrician fits an mcb poorly, let's say he fit it to the busbar incorrectly and it starts to burn, he can’t really say ‘I fitted that 2 ½ years ago mate so it’s out of guarantee’.
Click to expand...

The car repair scenario is a good analogy.
 
andyb said:
I will say however, I think for the electrician to say that the work is guaranteed for 1 year is a bit poor. Fine to say that the parts will be covered by the manufacturer's warranty, but the work itself should be covered for life. By this I mean if I’ve done something wrong and it comes to light, I will go and put it right whenever. If an electrician fits an mcb poorly, let's say he fit it to the busbar incorrectly and it starts to burn, he can’t really say ‘I fitted that 2 ½ years ago mate so it’s out of guarantee’.
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The problem I can see with this is that others will work on the CU during its working life. Besides additions and alterations, you've got fault finding and EICRs too, any of which can leave loose connections etc. You find yourself paying for someone else's cock-up a couple of years down the line. 1 year is reasonable IMO, there has to be a limit.
 
andyb said:
I think for the electrician to say that the work is guaranteed for 1 year is a bit poor. Fine to say that the parts will be covered by the manufacturer's warranty, but the work itself should be covered for life.
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1 year parts and labour is completely standard. I'm not sure what you expect. My garage only gives a year on works carried out on my van.
 
UNG said:
I'm not sure what guarantee / warranty you are expecting could it be 5 or 10 years would you pay for a yearly or 2 yearly check on your installation to maintain your warranty like you do on a new vehicle, I very much doubt you would as you appear to be complaining about the cost of the CU, was the this work organised by a letting agent and did they take their %age adding to the cost

I don't know why people keep on peddling this after seeing some of the posts on here the CPS is an embarrassment to this industry
Click to expand...
And in terms of EICRs totally unnecessary. A way of CPS’ to winkle more money from members.
 
Pretty Mouth said:
The problem I can see with this is that others will work on the CU during its working life. Besides additions and alterations, you've got fault finding and EICRs too, any of which can leave loose connections etc. You find yourself paying for someone else's cock-up a couple of years down the line. 1 year is reasonable IMO, there has to be a limit.
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I don't know why any of that would be a problem PM. I'm not guaranteeing the installation for life, if time has passed and I'm called to a fault where others have been involved then all bets are off. I'm just talking about my workmanship. I should have thought that even the law would say you're responsible for your own mistakes and that you can not discharge your responsibility after 12 months.

If that was the case then PL insurance would be a lot cheaper.
 
andyb said:
And I don't know why people keep on pedaling using unregistered un vetted electricians UNG, some of the posts on here regarding work done by handymen and chancers are an embarrassment to this industry.
Click to expand...
I live in the real world there are many chancers and handymen with the absolute bare minimum of qualifications registered with the CPS's what does that tell you
andyb said:
For what it's worth, I was not 'peddling' anything, you do what you like. I pay to have my business checked annually by NAPIT, they check I have all the necessary insurances, qualifications, up to date publications, test equipment, knowledge of the regs and they inspect my work. All being well I go onto the CPS list. Now, by no means perfect but it's better than what was there before. Sure there are rogues out there, but as a layman with no electrical experience and not knowing any electricians, what's the best way to source someone to change my CU?.
Click to expand...
They actually check you have the minimum qualifications necessary and they inspect a very small %age of your work, with regard to test equipment we won't go there as it might incriminate some o the assessors
andyb said:
What’s your message to any youngsters just getting into the industry? ‘You don’t need to bother with all that registration and red tape rubbish, just wing it’

I don’t think you'd say that.
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I would tell them not to bother getting into the electrical industry as the industry is totally screwed and has been on the slippery slope since the introduction of Part P and the proliferation of dodgy training organisations all supported by the CPS's
 
andyb said:
I don't know why any of that would be a problem PM. I'm not guaranteeing the installation for life, if time has passed and I'm called to a fault where others have been involved then all bets are off. I'm just talking about my workmanship. I should have thought that even the law would say you're responsible for your own mistakes and that you can not discharge your responsibility after 12 months.

If that was the case then PL insurance would be a lot cheaper.
Click to expand...
andyb said:
I will say however, I think for the electrician to say that the work is guaranteed for 1 year is a bit poor. Fine to say that the parts will be covered by the manufacturer's warranty, but the work itself should be covered for life.
Click to expand...
How would you prove, for example, 8 years after fitting a consumer unit, that it wasn't your work that caused an MCB to burn out due to a loose connection? If your client claimed no other person had worked on that board/circuit, and there was no obvious new work there, it would be difficult. So you would honour your lifetime guarantee?
 
Pretty Mouth said:
How would you prove, for example, 8 years after fitting a consumer unit, that it wasn't your work that caused an MCB to burn out due to a loose connection? If your client claimed no other person had worked on that board/circuit, and there was no obvious new work there, it would be difficult. So you would honour your lifetime guarantee?
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Well, yeah, I would. If it was obvious to me that the board had not been touched since then why wouldn't I. But here's the thing, this has never happened to me and I suspect such a scenario has never happened to you either.

Let me turn the question around PM. You're a competent tradesman, confident in the quality of your work, you’ve just fitted a new consumer unit, you've fitted it with all due care and to manufacturers instructions. Why do you feel the need to underwrite your workmanship for just 12 months?
 
easy to determine if someone has been in a CU after you. fit a non-restickable seal over the joint in the CU. like them what you get on MFT at calibration.
 
Terminals can become loose over time from vibration, material creep, temperature fluctuations etc.

I would not guarantee beyond 12months without a caveat of regular maintenance and inspection.

you can buy a car with 5 year warranty, however it is not worth the paper its written on if you don’t have it serviced to manufacturers specifications and schedules.
 
James said:
you can buy a car with 5 year warranty, however it is not worth the paper its written on if you don’t have it serviced to manufacturers specifications and schedules.
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Not quite true James.
If the manufacturers have fitted a faulty part, then as soon as they are aware they will recall the vehicle and sort it no matter how old the car or whether you have maintained it properly or not. There are often recalls when it becomes clear that a part is faulty or failing.
 
andyb said:
Well, yeah, I would. If it was obvious to me that the board had not been touched since then why wouldn't I. But here's the thing, this has never happened to me and I suspect such a scenario has never happened to you either.

Let me turn the question around PM. You're a competent tradesman, confident in the quality of your work, you’ve just fitted a new consumer unit, you've fitted it with all due care and to manufacturers instructions. Why do you feel the need to underwrite your workmanship for just 12 months?
Click to expand...

The more time that passes after I have installed a CU, the more likely it is that someone else will have worked on the installation. Anyone working on any installation will most likely open up the CU, and probably disconnect conductors as part of that work. Someone replaces a shower, fits a new light in the loft, and so on. At that point in time, my guarantee theoretically ends for the parts worked on, but I won't know that.

Should a loose connection result from that other work, and the MCB burn out, an unscrupulous client could, being unable/unwilling to contact the responsible electrician (or perhaps they did it themselves), and faced with the cost of a consumer unit replacement, call me up, pretend no other work has taken place, and insist that I honour my guarantee.

Within 12 months of fitting a CU, I will probably know the installation fairly well, having tested and inspected as part of the CU change, so it is likely i will spot any changes. After several years, not a chance.

As @James says, terminals can work their way loose over time, again the longer it is since installation, the more likely this is to happen.

But really, there isn't much need for a guarantee of longer than 1 year. Any faults as a result of my work are likely to show themselves in a fairly short space of time.

You are right though, this has never happened to me. I very rarely get call backs, and it's always due to faulty equipment or user error.
 
Pretty Mouth said:
The more time that passes after I have installed a CU, the more likely it is that someone else will have worked on the installation. Anyone working on any installation will most likely open up the CU, and probably disconnect conductors as part of that work. Someone replaces a shower, fits a new light in the loft, and so on. At that point in time, my guarantee theoretically ends for the parts worked on, but I won't know that.
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You will know if it's a mistake that you made, think about it, if you're called to a fault years later then it's not going to be down to you. What on earth could that fault be all those years later.
Pretty Mouth said:
As @James says, terminals can work their way loose over time, again the longer it is since installation, the more likely this is to happen.
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If you installed correctly then terminals working their way loose will not be down to you, so chargeable.
Pretty Mouth said:
But really, there isn't much need for a guarantee of longer than 1 year. Any faults as a result of my work are likely to show themselves in a fairly short space of time.
Click to expand...
That's right.
Pretty Mouth said:
You are right though, this has never happened to me. I very rarely get call backs, and it's always due to faulty equipment or user error.
Click to expand...
So there you go, it hasn't happened to me either and probably no one else on this forum that does the work diligently.

So I ask the question, why would you try to discharge all responsibility for your workmanship a year and a day after installing it?
 
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