DIYers/Builders...when will it end

[hercule]

If someone wants to do their own work in their own home they will. What i would like to see in the DIY shops is a notice telling people about part p and what they can and shouldn't do themselves. The usual leaflets they supply with light fittings etc always say if in doubt to get an electrician in - but what about a bit more detail and tell them about the schemes and competant persons website.

There are a lot of 'handymen' working around me who advertise electrical work, it just seems a bit pointless the punter calling them in when they can't figuire out whats wrong with their shiny new light when they've crowbarred 6 red wires into the 'live' terminal on the fitting.

We pay a fortune to the schemes to be able to work by the rules and do things by the book. In return the schemes need to start promoting us to the public.

Simple case - experienced diyer fitting outside pir light, allowed to do it, no problem. If he's taking the feed from kitchen light then notifyable so needs to get someone in. That's the rules and we pay money to be the 'legit' option for people. But how many people know this?

If we have to pay so much to be registered with the schemes, then they need to invest some of that money in educating the public and promoting us to them. The only advertising I see from them is in trying to recruit/poach new members (cash cows).

 

[Octopus]

One thing that is odd is the mandatory fitting of bonding to gas and water when doing any upgrades - we as diligent scheme members adhere to this but no paperwork in any DIY chain or new CU box mentions this in any way.

When it comes to extra sockets, the bonding question again, plus RCDs's

Sometimes the hurdles we are supposed to achieve seem pretty stupid.

 

[Engineer54]

It needs sorting from the top down,legislation needs to be right and proper as in electrical goods can only be purchased upon reciept of a valid JIB card or such like.

Still can't see the bigger picture then!!! Restrictive trading of electrical materials will only make material prices HIGHER!! and will reduce your work not increase it... And it will still not stop the home DIYer from working and doing jobs in his own home!!!

Your seeing a problem that just ISN'T there in the first place. It's the builders Plumber's, Kitchen Fitters and all the other tradesmen that are hiring there services to do electrical work that is your problem, and these so-called scheme providers (that your paying extortionate fee's too) that are officially allowing them to do it!! As i said before, You need to sort out your own back yard before you start worrying about the non existent problems with home owner DIYers...

 

[Geordie Spark]

If someone wants to do their own work in their own home they will. What i would like to see in the DIY shops is a notice telling people about part p and what they can and shouldn't do themselves. The usual leaflets they supply with light fittings etc always say if in doubt to get an electrician in - but what about a bit more detail and tell them about the schemes and competant persons website.

There are a lot of 'handymen' working around me who advertise electrical work, it just seems a bit pointless the punter calling them in when they can't figuire out whats wrong with their shiny new light when they've crowbarred 6 red wires into the 'live' terminal on the fitting.

We pay a fortune to the schemes to be able to work by the rules and do things by the book. In return the schemes need to start promoting us to the public.

Simple case - experienced diyer fitting outside pir light, allowed to do it, no problem. If he's taking the feed from kitchen light then notifyable so needs to get someone in. That's the rules and we pay money to be the 'legit' option for people. But how many people know this?

If we have to pay so much to be registered with the schemes, then they need to invest some of that money in educating the public and promoting us to them. The only advertising I see from them is in trying to recruit/poach new members (cash cows).

Have you thought about writing to the scheme provider about this?

 

[oldtimer]

Have you thought about writing to the scheme provider about this?

Lets face it the Schemies are not here to promote safety or the trade it is about bagging members getting a nice wage and pension and getting a bonus for courses sold becaus if the where interested in putting up standards they would join in with this forum instead of lurking. The only time these guys will move is if we have an event ie Government decides to do xx for the trade

 

[Geordie Spark]

Lets face it the Schemies are not here to promote safety or the trade it is about bagging members getting a nice wage and pension and getting a bonus for courses sold becaus if the where interested in putting up standards they would join in with this forum instead of lurking. The only time these guys will move is if we have an event ie Government decides to do xx for the trade

There IS another way & that is for all of you/us to refuse to have nowt to do with the schemes.

Sparks were quite capable of working without being members of these scams before so I see no reason why we can't now. If EVERYONE tuck two fingers up at the Government, what could they do about it??

It's a system that works very well in France & Italy !!!

These things become inflicted on us ONLY because we allow them to be !!

Yes, maybe I am an anarchist .... but I'm an anarchist who has never paid a single penny to a scam provider - and since I'm now happily retired I never will.

 

[drew35]

That is a very valid point, people always thing that other trades work is ok to do themselves. You are supposed to have an ATA qualification before working on a motor vehicle, especially brakes. Case in point another electrician locally serviced his van and also changed the front brakes, managed to twist the caliper around before bolting it back on. A few days later with the flexi twisted and blocked the van pulled hard over to the left and off the road, van no more. . .

 

[Geordie Spark]

That is a very valid point, people always thing that other trades work is ok to do themselves. You are supposed to have an ATA qualification before working on a motor vehicle, especially brakes. Case in point another electrician locally serviced his van and also changed the front brakes, managed to twist the caliper around before bolting it back on. A few days later with the flexi twisted and blocked the van pulled hard over to the left and off the road, van no more. . .

My ex-brother in law is a mechanic working for our local bus company & among other things, is responsible for fixing the brakes on buses.

However, when he wanted the brake pads changing on his car, he asked ME to do it for him !!

I'm NOT a mechanic, I'm a Time-Served Precision Engineer who retrained to become a Gas Fitter & Electrician ... and I have the paperwork to prove it. (thankfully now retired)

 

[oldtimer]

Yep my business cannot sustain a schemie membership as I do more repairs and mods ie no installs I just think this scheme thing has got out of hand it was meant to ensure standards but instead its about bagging members sales

 

[Geordie Spark]

The sad fact is that we British are nothing but a bunch of sheep & the sooner we wake up to that fact and DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT the better !!!

(maybe I should have said flock??)

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Still can't see the bigger picture then!!! Restrictive trading of electrical materials will only make material prices HIGHER!! and will reduce your work not increase it... And it will still not stop the home DIYer from working and doing jobs in his own home!!!

Your seeing a problem that just ISN'T there in the first place. It's the builders Plumber's, Kitchen Fitters and all the other tradesmen that are hiring there services to do electrical work that is your problem, and these so-called scheme providers (that your paying extortionate fee's too) that are officially allowing them to do it!! As i said before, You need to sort out your own back yard before you start worrying about the non existent problems with home owner DIYers...

exactly my point earlier eng about divvys comeing along and hireing themselves out to do electrical work in other peoples homes/property without the slightest incling of either:

1)what they are doing

2)what needs doing

3) how to do the job compliantly

 

[Dave 85]

This is gonna make me popular....
I've said it before and Im gonna say it again....
I have no problem with Part P registration.
Ok I'm young and I've never known anything else but Im glad its there.
£350 a year is chump change as far as I'm concerned, gas fitters have to pay an arm and a leg to stay registered.
I use Elecsa, they're always on hand for advice if I need it and my annual inspection keeps my standards from slipping.
Now I know some of ypu are gonna come out and say the introduction of Part P has NEVER deterred a SINGLE kitchen fitter/builder from doing his own wiring. This is a load of crap. Ok so I realise lots of you see evidence of other trades doing electrical work but I hardly see any (not in brown and blue, plenty of DIY bodging in white T&E though). When I chat to other trades about it they say things to the effect of "I used to do all my own wiring but I'm not allowed any more cos of part P"
I'm certain that I would have significantly less work on without it.

IMO its better to have a kitchen fitter whos had five weeks intensive electrical training and had to pass both practical and theory exams, aswell as being assesed on his competence once a year (ok its hard to fail, but they're gonna point out what you're doing wrong) doing wiring than a kitchen fitter whos just seen a sparky do it a few times.
I know at least 3 tradesmen who have done the part P course then realised afterwards that they still cant legally work without being registered and given up, who don't do their own wiring (they all use me).

 

[Dave 85]

Ok so its a bit silly that a fully trained experience sparky who works for a company isn't allowed to so his own notifiable private work but if it were me I'd just do it anyway instead os sitting on the net moaning about it day in day out.

 

[Geordie Spark]

Ok so its a bit silly that a fully trained experience sparky who works for a company isn't allowed to so his own notifiable private work but if it were me I'd just do it anyway instead os sitting on the net moaning about it day in day out.

Thank flock for that !!!!

I was sitting here thinking I was all alone !!!

 

[alarm man]

Ok so its a bit silly that a fully trained experience sparky who works for a company isn't allowed to so his own notifiable private work but if it were me I'd just do it anyway instead os sitting on the net moaning about it day in day out.

ive done a bit,and im not part p as its known,i do have a guide to part p regs book tho.it doesnt stop any spark doing what they have done for years anyway imo

 

[trev]

To a point, we should be thankful for the existence of the DIYer and for the sheds that supply him/her. For example, today I have had two calls from people who have decided to put their own light fittings in. Red to red black to black turn on and bang Er I'd best phone a sparky.
Easy money for an easy job

 

[Geordie Spark]

ive done a bit,and im not part p as its known,i do have a guide to part p regs book tho.it doesnt stop any spark doing what they have done for years anyway imo

As long as you have a guide to Part P you'll always be able to wipe yer arse & light yer fire.

 

[trev]

ive done a bit,and im not part p as its known,i do have a guide to part p regs book tho.it doesnt stop any spark doing what they have done for years anyway imo

It also never stops a cowboy

 

[Dave 85]

ive done a bit,and im not part p as its known,i do have a guide to part p regs book tho.it doesnt stop any spark doing what they have done for years anyway imo

Exactly. It was never intended to stop qualified employed electicians doing their own work, that was just a side effect. I can't see how you'd ever get in trouble for it. For a sparky who spends most of their time doing private domestic jobs its in their own interest to be registered to avoid the odd problem with building inspectors and because it looks more pro if you can put on yr letter head 'registered competent person'

If you're a qual'd spark whos not registered doing private domestic jobs the only thing you are doing is a minor breach of building regs, which any decent builder does on a regular basis.

 

[alarm man]

As long as you have a guide to Part P you'll always be able to wipe yer arse & light yer fire.

it s not a bad read really when your sitiing there when it wont come out,prefer the ronny gill most times..
:wink_smile: