Level of qualification needed to obtain licence?

[Engineer54]

I was asking your opinion...sheesh...

Well you got my opinion!! There was only one possible answer anyway!!!

 

[ipf]

Alright you old fart!

Guess that's me out of the new licensing scheme! haha

Defo, whippersnapper............get them brews sorted :yesnod:

tttttthhhhhhhhhwwwwp

 

[Guest569]

Off-topic, removed

 

[CockneyReject]

Create a minimum qualification and it has to be accessible i.e. not require sponsorship from an employer to gain it (you then get guys who are decent sparks but don't have the paperwork unable to formalise themselves, despite being more than willing to do so) - Thats why I proposed a serious indepth practical assessment with a theory test also. For the purposes of the practical test, I'm not sure if others agree but I think it would make sense to have different practicals for different sectors to test the different skills - making off large CSA SWA is a skill unto itself in the industrial sphere, as is tracing / terminating cables in a confined space in the domestic sphere....as 2 poor examples..

you mean abit like we already have in what has been the 2360/2330 and is now the 2365 which is then backed up with an nvq 3 an am2 and 4 years experience on the job? No need to reinvent the wheel is there? The only thing wrong with what's in place now is watered down theory, poor teaching, a watered down am2, part p short courses and large companies/scams quite happily sub dividing the industry to further their own needs drive wages down and line their pockets

end of the day it doesn't matter what you do a sparks a spark electricitys all the same no matter how many phases your working with, there's no need to sub divide it if you want to specialise in one area there's courses to do so already for example compex. All this domestic installer larks ******** and we need to make a united stand as an industry to get it sorted not sit here and deskill it further

 

[MDJ]

Again reading your post I suggest you remove it as you have been warned before...your comments are defamatory. If it makes you sleep a bit better why don't you trawl through my Facebook page, I'm sure you will find a copy of my grade card on there !

Are you ever going to stop ?

All you need to do is click the black triangle to the left of the thanks link on the left bottom of any post you feel is a problem and stop continually posting back, this way the thread doesn't get trashed and you may get the post which offends you removed.

 

[SPARTYKUS]

Gas has far more potential to kill multiple people.

Only when ignited.

by an electrical fault

 

[D Skelton]

exactly, no one wants to discuss tax affairs on a forum so why is uksparks constantly allowed to bring up and question mines ? I think he should be banned for repeatedly doing so.

Take it up with him then, not me!

 

[UNG]

Ok for new Entrants - NVQ3/AM2

Existing sparks - As above or a portfolio of work showing the required competencies OR an indepth practical assessment over say 5 days.

No mention of a core electrical qualification or any qualification for that matter so no better than what we have now

So a new spark gets away doing an NVQ / AM2 and an experienced spark has to do a "5 day in depth practical assessment"

Some disparity there then you obviously don't like level playing fields and if this is just to gain the right to apply for a licence I do wonder what you would expect at a 5 yearly assessment

I'd agree with 5 yearly, though I'd also go along with not knowing when during the 5 years the assessment would crop up.

A recipe for total chaos I can imagine a customer being really happy because their job is stopped for a few days while you have to go and do your reassessment at a moments notice and as it would expire after another 5 years some people could feel short changed getting hit for a reassessment within the 5 year period

I'd also quite happily see an adjudication service or similar setup - customer isn't happy, calls the adjudicators - adjudicators agree - spark sorts it out or if horrifically bad faces sanctions, adjudicators disagree - customer pays the spark and if the complaint obviously malicious...pays a penalty charge (to dissuade timewasters).

Are you reinventing trading standards or creating another expensive quango !!!!!!

In a country where the govt can't even bill for income tax properly / provide a regs book written in plain and unambiguous English....thats a pretty big assumption....lol

The regs are written in law speak as this is the reference book for the legal bods when we get it wrong


Reading through your initial assessment suggestions all I can see is £££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££ a 5 day assessment could easily end up costing between £2K - £2.5K when all the costs and lost earnings are taken into account and what will it prove getting experienced sparks to jump through hoops so they can carry on working in the industry while letting in new entrants with an NVQ / AM2 a qualification which isn't worth a right hand job IMO

 

[uksparks]

Without a core qualification, ...absolutely NOT!!

Can you just clarify what your definition of a core qualification is please. I do accept what you are saying and I largely agree, but I suppose things have changed these days to how they used to be and its only supported by scheme providers who are controlling the situation.

 

[MDJ]

All this tax talk needs to stop, it is no ones business regarding someones tax return or tax affairs, I totally agree with JRC about that. So hopefully he will stop posting about it, as we are all getting fed up with it now.

 

[uksparks]

All this tax talk needs to stop, it is no ones business regarding someones tax return or tax affairs, I totally agree with JRC about that. So hopefully he will stop posting about it, as we are all getting fed up with it now.

I agree, it should be posted on a TAX forum, point taken. I wont mention TAX again. Also, I think just to add to this, all the bull should stop as well as its just making people cringe.

 

[Engineer54]

Can you just clarify what your definition of a core qualification is please. I do accept what you are saying and I largely agree, but I suppose things have changed these days to how they used to be and its only supported by scheme providers who are controlling the situation.

It's NOT my definition, it's the trades standard qualification, and has been for as long as anyone here can remember. Frankly i'm amazed that there are people working in this industry that haven't a clue as to what the basic core qualification that every ''electrician'' since time began has needed to become an electrician.

OK, for the last 40/50 years the fundamental core qualification has been one of these, depending only on how long ago you completed your training .... 2360 Lv3, 2330 Lv 3 (AM 2), and presently 2364/65 (c/w AM2/NVQ Lv 3)

 

[Knobhead]

Sorry, but you need to draw the line somewhere. There is and never has been a domestic installer, it's a make believe term, made up by the make believe competent assessors!! If such a scheme is brought in, and i certainly hope it does, then you will have to be given a certain period of time (maybe 2 Years) to meet the set minimum standard... The blanket term Electrician, is the basic qualified starting point, (eg, no DI's etc)

We need to get back to basics, and define what constitutes a qualified electrician. There is no place in this industry for under qualified operatives, no-matter what you call them. All you end up doing is deskilling the industry (and what is happening at the present along with the resulting low pay scales you see being offered) and that is just about the worst thing you can do to any trade!!

Your either an Electrician that holds all the relevant qualifications and skills, or you're NOT!!

Thank you.

You have said what I’ve been thinking for years.

 

[Rockingit]

Playing Devil's Advocate - if you set the bar too high, and 10's of thousands of 'currently practising people' fall under it, then logically they all become redundant. On the basis that no government in their right mind is EVER going to pass legislation effecting that many people, ergo it follows that - for a period of time at least - there will have to be an amnesty to allow those CURRENTLY DOING SO to continue. It could have a ramp period of say five years to achieve 'the standard', but it couldn't just be an in or out process otherwise it'd probably all end in some massive human rights law case.

I can see it now - Mr Electrical Trainee spends £8k on his plastic to 'train', isn't allowed to work afterwards, sues his Plastic under terms of the credit act via some no-win-no-fee lawyer, Plastic x 10,000 others then sues the Government..... and so on.

So, to my mind, we are where we are. We'll not be going back in time from this point, all we can hope to achieve is a return to quality standards at some point in the future.

 

[MDJ]

This thread is turning into a "who has the biggest dick" competition between 3 or 4 members at the moment and Uk spark and JRC are trying to beat the other lol

 

[D Skelton]

This thread is turning into a "who has the biggest dick" competition between 3 or 4 members at the moment and Uk spark and JRC are trying to beat the other lol

What?! Like literally 'beat' each other?! With what?! Their gentleman's sausages?

The only way they'll know who wins for sure is to whip 'em out!

 

[uksparks]

OK, for the last 40/50 years the fundamental core qualification has been one of these, depending only on how long ago you completed your training .... 2360 Lv3, 2330 Lv 3 (AM 2), and presently 2364/65 (c/w AM2/NVQ Lv 3)

On the flip side of the coin then, do you know exactly what qualifications you need to get the "Gas Safe" license? Just thought it would be a good idea so we can compare to an already licensed trade.

 

[uksparks]

This thread is turning into a "who has the biggest dick" competition between 3 or 4 members at the moment and Uk spark and JRC are trying to beat the other lol

I live honestly and in reality and always have done, unfortunately some people like to think they can shop down the "One Upmanship Isle" in the supermarket.

He best not bring his sausage over here!

 

[Engineer54]

Playing Devil's Advocate - if you set the bar too high, and 10's of thousands of 'currently practising people' fall under it, then logically they all become redundant. On the basis that no government in their right mind is EVER going to pass legislation effecting that many people, ergo it follows that - for a period of time at least - there will have to be an amnesty to allow those CURRENTLY DOING SO to continue. It could have a ramp period of say five years to achieve 'the standard', but it couldn't just be an in or out process otherwise it'd probably all end in some massive human rights law case.

I can see it now - Mr Electrical Trainee spends £8k on his plastic to 'train', isn't allowed to work afterwards, sues his Plastic under terms of the credit act via some no-win-no-fee lawyer, Plastic x 10,000 others then sues the Government..... and so on.

So, to my mind, we are where we are. We'll not be going back in time from this point, all we can hope to achieve is a return to quality standards at some point in the future.

Of course there will have to be some kind of amnesty, where the wannabe's that want to continue working in this industry, are given a period of time to achieve the minimum standard. 5 Years is however far too long and i fear, will be taken advantage of!! 2 to 3 Years is far more realistic.

One thing needs to be made clear though, those minimum qualification levels must not be compromised just to appease those that entered this industry via the back door with virtually not a meaningful qualification or skill level to their name...

That should be, ....Plastic X 10.000 sueing the Scam providers that accepted these fascicle under trained, under qualified inexperienced wannabe DI's as being suitably competent!!

 

[MDJ]

He best not bring his sausage over here!

:smilielol5: or here lol