Nightmare customer giving me grief

[gap30]

Recently picked up a contract doing bathroom installs, about 3 weeks ago did a bathroom install in a customers house - installed shower/lights in a new 2 way RCD db blah blah, anyways no main earth, using bond to water 6mm as earthing conductor - no bonding to gas, getting Ze of 43 ohms when carrying out eic for nic cert.

Told customer earthing conductor, and bonding to gas/water all need upgrading and it will cost £130.00 - all hell breaks loose, she starts accusing me of ripping her off and what not, calms her down and explains that I cannot issue cert etc

Carries out work, prints off cert and takes to house couple of days ago, she is still moaning - today I get a phone call from bathroom company saying she is taking legal advice on the matter. Ok so I have just emailed link to official NICEIC complaints form to bathroom company.

Should I be worried about this, i am half tempted to go back rip it out, rip up cert and give her money back and she can stick it where sun dont shine

 

[Octopus]

Who is paying you for the bathroom work? If its the bathroom company you should have told them about the issues and get them to negeotiate with the customer.

 

[gap30]

Usually i just bill customers directly if there are any extra's, as i say have had my own business, got a very good reputation, just a nightmare customer. Also the prices are not great, just wanted to get it finished so could get paid, if i cant issue cert i have to go back, basically i price them as in and outs if you get me.

 

[bigbaddave]

I really hate them installs where main bonding in required..

I want a new Electric shower fitted.. Right can i see you Gas Meter and stop cock.. Errm why.. I need to check its bonded..

Anyhow when its not and you have to quote to upgrade they think you pulling a fast one..

 

[Octopus]

Usually i just bill customers directly if there are any extra's, as i say have had my own business, got a very good reputation, just a nightmare customer. Also the prices are not great, just wanted to get it finished so could get paid, if i cant issue cert i have to go back, basically i price them as in and outs if you get me.

In which case I'd open a beer and forget about it until the legal paperwork arrives (which it won't)

 

[dim_bulb]

Didn't you check before carry out the work?

 

[gap30]

lol, why are 95% of customers great and you always get that one you know what

Fully explained the issue, i do everything by the book and sometimes people just ...grr!

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To be honest no, maybe i have learnt a lesson here, never ASSUME anything springs to mind which i should know better (in relation to not checking)

 

[telectrix]

agreed ^^^^^. if you have been paid, then just flag the name and address as no further work wanted.

 

[bigbaddave]

And another thing i dont take for granted is that the bonding starts at the board and finishes at the gas meter its not allways a continious cable. Worked on a council estate about a year ago. Bonding looked fine until i lifted the floor boards.. The had 1m of bond cable fed under the floor and nailed to the floor.. And guess what same at the gas meter.. Nailed to the bloody floor..

 

[kingeri]

I've had it a few times where customers have failed to see the value of main bonding. I've even had a guy saying, "What's the point of that?". It helps to have reference materials to show them, but at the end of the day we shouldn't have to convince people that bonding is important - we're only trying to potentially save them or their kids from a nasty shock.

 

[Dave 85]

The way I see it if you quoted for the work then you've gotta give them the finished certificated job for the quoted amount. Its not her fault you couldn't be arsed to check the bonding beforehand. You have to see this from her point of view...to a layman it would look like you are just taking the p*ss.

If you are doing quotes without viewing the job first (which in some cases is practical) then you HAVE to make it very clear in the terms that there may be extra work required in order to make the affected circuits conform to modern safety standards etc etc

 

[Fin170]

I'd also be interested in how people explain bonding to Dave public, my descriptions normally end up over complex :willy_nilly:

 

[imago]

I'd also be interested in how people explain bonding to Dave public, my descriptions normally end up over complex :willy_nilly:

"Fault current will find the easiest path to earth madam. Would you like me to install/upgrade the cables to allow that? Or would you prefer to use the little boy/girl there?"

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The way I see it if you quoted for the work then you've gotta give them the finished certificated job for the quoted amount. Its not her fault you couldn't be arsed to check the bonding beforehand. You have to see this from her point of view...to a layman it would look like you are just taking the p*ss.

Harsh, but fair.

 

[gap30]

OK i learnt a harsh lesson here, examine earthing whilst quoting, not setting a good example here for an nic installer!!

Could have done what most people do ..... (apart from people on this forum i mean!)

 

[jenions]

I'd also be interested in how people explain bonding to Dave public, my descriptions normally end up over complex :willy_nilly:

Use the electrical safety councils free leaflets, all in black and white and looks professional

 

[dean.diy]

evening gap30, not very nice to hear of your predicament, particularly for the sole traders who subscribe to
the forum. It seems now a lot of jobs slurp up 1 or 2 hours of our unpaid time where we " verify" ? the
situation before we can even quote. I'm a junior member, I wasted 3/4 hour last week checking the
supply only to read the manufacturers' instructions which asked for RCD the customer did not want or
understand.

- - - Updated - - -

evening gap30, not very nice to hear of your predicament, particularly for the sole traders who subscribe to
the forum. It seems now a lot of jobs slurp up 1 or 2 hours of our unpaid time where we " verify" ? the
situation before we can even quote. I'm a junior member, I wasted 3/4 hour last week checking the
supply only to read the manufacturers' instructions which asked for RCD the customer did not want or
understand.

 

[gap30]

Guess which idiot is £130.00 out of pocket, bathroom company went to get paid and customer held back on £130.00 even after i spent an hour explaining why i was doing the work and the importance/safety aspect.

As other have said i should have checked before and i have learnt my lesson where it hurts most, but 99.9% of people would just say 'ok you are the spark, if it needs doing, do it'

Put this one down to experience methinks

 

[gap30]

evening gap30, not very nice to hear of your predicament, particularly for the sole traders who subscribe to
the forum. It seems now a lot of jobs slurp up 1 or 2 hours of our unpaid time where we " verify" ? the
situation before we can even quote. I'm a junior member, I wasted 3/4 hour last week checking the
supply only to read the manufacturers' instructions which asked for RCD the customer did not want or
understand.

- - - Updated - - -

evening gap30, not very nice to hear of your predicament, particularly for the sole traders who subscribe to
the forum. It seems now a lot of jobs slurp up 1 or 2 hours of our unpaid time where we " verify" ? the
situation before we can even quote. I'm a junior member, I wasted 3/4 hour last week checking the
supply only to read the manufacturers' instructions which asked for RCD the customer did not want or
understand.

I have honestly had times recently where i wonder why i bother - then i remember what it was like working for other people lol

 

[not clever]

Guess which idiot is £130.00 out of pocket, bathroom company went to get paid and customer held back on £130.00 even after i spent an hour explaining why i was doing the work and the importance/safety aspect.

As other have said i should have checked before and i have learnt my lesson where it hurts most, but 99.9% of people would just say 'ok you are the spark, if it needs doing, do it'

Put this one down to experience methinks

**** that, get some orange/red "this account is in debt, if account is not settled in 7 days debt will be passed to recovery dept" stickers made & apply one to the invoice & one to the envelope.

You've done the work & explained why it needed doing...............odds on NICEIC will say the 6mm to water will suffice.

 

[gap30]

**** that, get some orange/red "this account is in debt, if account is not settled in 7 days debt will be passed to recovery dept" stickers made & apply one to the invoice & one to the envelope.

You've done the work & explained why it needed doing...............odds on NICEIC will say the 6mm to water will suffice.

Will consider my options, have given customer the certificate as they were moaning about that too!!

 

[SAILOR48]

:christmaswreath:

Will consider my options, have given customer the certificate as they were moaning about that too!!

Don’t knock yourself out over this; turn it in to a learning event.
When you go self employed you are no longer an electrician, you are a business man/woman.
You should have sufficient knowledge/equipment, to carry out the works properly.
You need to get it in your head that the most important thing is to make money out of it, you should aim to make at least double what you would earn as employed.
You have to factor in quoting, travelling, call backs and all the other things you will have to do to get work. (This must be paid for in the long term.)
Your transport accountants scam scheme etc every thing for your business must be paid for by the chargeable work.
Look at your problem, make sure in future that if you quote itemise exactly what you will do for what price.
All ways put in a proviso that you are assuming that the existing installation is in a usable/safe condition. Such statements as we would be glad to quote extra to bring it up to standard BLA BLA.
On arrival to site check out the installation it should only take half an hour you know what to look for.
And quote for the extra work if necessary.
If you do this before you start, if it all goes rotten you can walk away.

A lot of this problem is caused by that bald dwarf on the telley and that ugly old minger who does that quiz program

 

[gap30]

Don’t knock yourself out over this; turn it in to a learning event.
When you go self employed you are no longer an electrician, you are a business man/woman.
You should have sufficient knowledge/equipment, to carry out the works properly.
You need to get it in your head that the most important thing is to make money out of it, you should aim to make at least double what you would earn as employed.
You have to factor in quoting, travelling, call backs and all the other things you will have to do to get work. (This must be paid for in the long term.)
Your transport accountants scam scheme etc every thing for your business must be paid for by the chargeable work.
Look at your problem, make sure in future that if you quote itemise exactly what you will do for what price.
All ways put in a proviso that you are assuming that the existing installation is in a usable/safe condition. Such statements as we would be glad to quote extra to bring it up to standard BLA BLA.
On arrival to site check out the installation it should only take half an hour you know what to look for.
And quote for the extra work if necessary.
If you do this before you start, if it all goes rotten you can walk away.

A lot of this problem is caused by that bald dwarf on the telley and that ugly old minger who does that quiz program

Cheers!! Should staple that to dashboard in van

 

[SAILOR48]

You will learn grasshopper :ihih:

 

[Des 56]

Isn't it just typical of what being a spark means to the public nowadays
A good spark doing a fair days work getting screwed and then becoming the villain in the saga

 

[sedgy34]

You should find a happy result from this situation
bond the gas for £65 she would rather pay that
and the Nic would say you should go back free of charge as you should have checked before you Installed any cables

also I used to do works for a bathroom company and they charged £60 for an electrical safety certificate even though I supplied it after works

 

[richy3333]

Some good advice on the thread. As was mentioned ask the ESC to send you a box of their leaflets on earthing. I hand these out to customers when pricing and it always shuts them up. To them it looks official and not like you are trying to rip them off because the ESC sounds so official.

Bite the bullet and recoup the lost money on the next couple of jobs you do for the bathroom company

 

[Kem]

Here you go

http://www.esc.org.uk/public/guides-and-advice/leaflets/

 

[SparkyJoe]

nevermind

 

[Robert Turnbull]

I never give a cert out unless been paid!

The bottom line i would use is you can't certificate the job without the bonding as its a requirement!

 

[oldtimer]

You just walked straight into that ie you or the bathroom company should have stated this before any work gets done and even do a pre survey as I get calls about a new CU and I always mention that I need to check the earthing and even send them a pick that megger made up showing it explaining that yep there has been no probbs with the house before the work commences but when they alter it they need to bring the electrics up to standard

 

[tony mc]

I never give a cert out unless been paid!

The bottom line i would use is you can't certificate the job without the bonding as its a requirement!

But you should not be doing the job if the correct bonding is not in place !

 

[gap30]

This was a one off freak job and thats it

Thanks for all the advice, will use it wisely in future