Working in Schools?

[Guest77]

Well we are all truly ****ed if the NICEIC are considered to be above the British standards institute!

Yes I agree, but that is what the county councils want, they have been running an approved contractor scheme for 40 years plus now and therefore are the accepted body of the Local authorities, the rest need to catch up, but are a way back yet.

 

[Guest77]

Well we are all truly ****ed if the NICEIC are considered to be above the British standards institute!

But the BS are standards not a regulary body sending out inspectors annually checking work from approved contractors in schools and libraries etc, big difference, I am not NICEIC friendly, just pointing out the obvious, for Stroma to gain acceptance by most councils as a competition to the NICEIC they need to up thier game and get away from the Part P schemes they seem to get attention in, there are few houses in county council control, it is schools and police/fire stations and libraiers etc etc, the city councils deal with housing, and this thread is about county council requirements.

 

[davesparks]

But the BS are standards not a regulary body sending out inspectors annually checking work from approved contractors in schools and libraries etc, big difference, I am not NICEIC friendly, just pointing out the obvious, for Stroma to gain acceptance by most councils as a competition to the NICEIC they need to up thier game and get away from the Part P schemes they seem to get attention in, there are few houses in county council control, it is schools and police/fire stations and libraiers etc etc, the city councils deal with housing, and this thread is about county council requirements.

The BSI scheme does do exactly that, the same as all of the other schemes

 

[Guest77]

The BSI scheme does do exactly that, the same as all of the other schemes

Never heard of them inspecting members and the NICEIC do have 11000, it is no good trying to argue Stromas case, they will need to adapt to a scheme inspecting Commercial and Industrial work by letting the Local authorities know and by adhereing to the local authorities requirements, they are not there yet, they are new and trying to get there, they will, but at the moment the NICEIC have the market with the Approved contractor scheme, I have been doing this 33 years and have been to dozens of meetings, I am not making this up, I have seen Napit attempt to get in the door and fall due to not meeting requirments, they are also too pro Part P, to get into the schools most, not all but Most Local authorities want the established NICEIC, it is a fact and for it to change the others need to up their game lol.

 

[Guest77]

The thing is with the NICEIC the inspectors are different from the Domestic installer inspectors, the NICEIC treat the 2 bodies as different bodies, the same organisation but they keep them apart, If stroma did a similar thing and could adhere to the L A requirements they may get in the door, but they are associated with Part P only, bad marketing, I have just looked at their site and nothing stands out as anything other than Domestic and Green at first look to me.

 

[Welchyboy1]

The thing is with the NICEIC the inspectors are different from the Domestic installer inspectors, the NICEIC treat the 2 bodies as different bodies, the same organisation but they keep them apart, If stroma did a similar thing and could adhere to the L A requirements they may get in the door, but they are associated with Part P only, bad marketing, I have just looked at their site and nothing stands out as anything other than Domestic and Green at first look to me.

Outside of this forum, i dont think theres a single spark i know whos even heard of stoma for part p scheme, let alone people not in the industry

they will have a steep hill to climb to take on the nic approved contractor scheme

 

[Guest77]

Very True mate, very true.

 

[davesparks]

Never heard of them inspecting members and the NICEIC do have 11000, it is no good trying to argue Stromas case, they will need to adapt to a scheme inspecting Commercial and Industrial work by letting the Local authorities know and by adhereing to the local authorities requirements, they are not there yet, they are new and trying to get there, they will, but at the moment the NICEIC have the market with the Approved contractor scheme, I have been doing this 33 years and have been to dozens of meetings, I am not making this up, I have seen Napit attempt to get in the door and fall due to not meeting requirments, they are also too pro Part P, to get into the schools most, not all but Most Local authorities want the established NICEIC, it is a fact and for it to change the others need to up their game lol.

I'm not interested in arguing stromas case, I'm far more interesting in the case against the NICEIC.
I have two local schools on my customer list, and the state of the work carried out there in recent years by the county council approved contractors is diabolical to say the least, they can stick their NICEIC registration as all it seems to guarantee these days is that a **** job will be done.

 

[Guest77]

So your saying all Electrical contractors on the NICEIC Approved contractor scheme do a **** job then? one word Dave=Bollox

 

[davesparks]

So your saying all Electrical contractors on the NICEIC Approved contractor scheme do a **** job then? one word Dave=Bollox

It certainly appears that way based on the **** I've had to deal with in the last couple of years. What about the people on here who loudly proclaim their membership of the NICEIC yet clearly haven't got a clue?
Of course it's a generalisation and there must be some top notch installers on the list. But none of is ever gets called out to deal with their ****ups.

 

[Guest77]

I'm not interested in arguing stromas case, I'm far more interesting in the case against the NICEIC.
I have two local schools on my customer list, and the state of the work carried out there in recent years by the county council approved contractors is diabolical to say the least, they can stick their NICEIC registration as all it seems to guarantee these days is that a **** job will be done.

I have known the schools caretaker to carry out work on the schools in the past Dave lol, you will always get good and bad sparks, regarding the NICEIC, I am not interested in them myself these days either, but the thread was asking a question about what you need to work in primary schools, I was answering the OP with a constructive realistic view, some schools however are allowed to spend their own money how they please, in that case they can employ anyone, so that said the NICEIC doesn't matter in those cases.

 

[Guest77]

It certainly appears that way based on the **** I've had to deal with in the last couple of years. What about the people on here who loudly proclaim their membership of the NICEIC yet clearly haven't got a clue?
Of course it's a generalisation and there must be some top notch installers on the list. But none of is ever gets called out to deal with their ****ups.

Well I was a member for years and won awards on large projects, I also know of several good companies in their approved contractor scheme, to suggest all NICEIC approved contractors do a **** job is just plain untrue and also unfair on many of the guys on here who are also forced to be with them to keep local authorities happy.

 

[davesparks]

I have known the schools caretaker to carry out work on the schools in the past Dave lol, you will always get good and bad sparks, regarding the NICEIC, I am not interested in them myself these days either, but the thread was asking a quetion about what you need to work in primary schools, I was answering the OP with a constructive realistic view, some schools however are allowed to spend their own money how they please, in that case they can employ anyone, so that said the NICEIC doesn't matter in those cases.

There's no danger of him doing that in the two schools I work for (same caretaker) I get called in to change lamps to save him having to get the steps out.

 

[Guest77]

It is up to Stroma and Napit and the others to prove to the L A that they have the facilities in place to monitor contractors properly, when they do that hopefully the NICEIC hold will crumble.

 

[davesparks]

It is up to Stroma and Napit and the others to prove to the L A that they have the facilities in place to monitor contractors properly, when they do that hopefully the NICEIC hold will crumble.

Which seems a tad unfair when the NICEIC don't monitor contractors properly!
Why can't a clerk of works from the LA actually look at the work that has been carried out and see when if is sub standard?

 

[Guest77]

(1) Most of us have had no choice but to join the NICEIC to get work which is paid for with public money
(2) The local authorities have only had the NICEIC in the past and therefore know nothing else.
(3) It is up to the schemes to promote themselves if they want a slice of the cake outside the Domestic sector
(4) the Ops question was regarding working in a Primary school and therefore the info he got was accurate for the question.
(5) To be in the game getting on arcitects lists and consulancy lists regarding work involving public money the contractor more than likely need to be in the NICEIC approved scheme.

I don't like it Dave, but it is fact, the ECA know it and have done something about it as have Elecsa, they are getting there, stroma are a long way back as are Napit currently.

 

[Guest77]

Which seems a tad unfair when the NICEIC don't monitor contractors properly!
Why can't a clerk of works from the LA actually look at the work that has been carried out and see when if is sub standard?

Where have you got that from? I was inspected every 12 months without fail, took him around 2-3 jobs and he sat in the office examining all the paperwork etc, year in year out. Regarding a clark of works, we had one twenty years ago but the council sacked him to save money, I agree it is a good way forward, maybe some councils still employ them, I have no idea if they do but some may.

 

[davesparks]

Where have you got that from? I .

As I said earlier, the shocking state of the work carried out by some NICEIC registered contractors. You cannot say they are monitoring/assessing contractors properly when they are carrying out woefully substandard work

 

[tazz]

Surrey, Essex and Kent use the same method of contracting. And this is separated into 2 categories. High value and Low.
The County councils deal with high values, and only 4 main registered construction companies can tender for the contract. The company and all its subcontractors, Must have Construction Online certification. Plus relevant approval ie NICIEE. Without this, or being on the approve list, you wont get a look in. The lower value under £40k is down to the schools own budget, and they can employ who they wish....If you have the chance of bidding here, this is an opportunity to get on their approved list.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

As I said earlier, the shocking state of the work carried out by some NICEIC registered contractors. You cannot say they are monitoring/assessing contractors properly when they are carrying out woefully substandard work

I'd have to agree with MDJ. The annual assessment process for approved contractors is pretty thorough.
I'd very much like to see some actual evidence of a shocking standard of work carried out by NICEIC approved contractors.