Working on live distribution boards?

[Davehaywire]

Can anyone tell me if I'm asked to work on a live db be it TP or SP lv ,by my employer,as I have done for many many years in cases where the board cannot be isolated for various reasons.
if for some reason I'm electrocuted and I have a hot works permit or not, should my employers insurance cover me for injury,death,loss of work, or should I have my own insurance.
can you get insurance for hot works or not?
i have wondered about this for a while, I have a family now, so if for some reason the worst scenario happens,what happens? What can I or my employer do to cover for this?
can any1 enlighten me

 

[loplug]

any work that you do should be coverd by a method statement from your employer and there has to be very good reasons for working in a live panel not just be cause it is inconvenient to turn some offices off

 

[ChrisElectrical88]

If you have signed something somewhere that gets the employer out of liability then your screwed if you die

 

[dingledong]

if your caught by 2 phasas they can sweep you under the rug > so be a right git and work only single phase live ,then they have to hide your body

 

[Davehaywire]

Sounds about right mate

 

[amlu]

your steady hands and your jobs, if you not feeling comfortably doing something then dont do it.
have insulated tools you can trust, work with one hand a time keep another one in your pocket.
or get a big long extension and rig up some temporary supply for the places you need to disconnect.

 

[Guest111]

The term hot work implies using cutting or welding equipment normally or grinders,not live working.Personally I think in a fatality questions would be asked not only regarding the reasons for doing it but also your suitability,I.E if you had any special training.

 

[Guest111]

your steady hands and your jobs, if you not feeling comfortably doing something then dont do it.
have insulated tools you can trust, work with one hand a time keep another one in your pocket.
or get a big long extension and rig up some temporary supply for the places you need to disconnect.

I had a set of tools just for live work and they didn't get used for anything else,last thing you want is to go live and find a damaged tool.

 

[Pete999]

Your employer would surely be breaking the law by even allowing you to work live, the EAW will give you the parameters it's not to be taken lightly, the rules there to protect you. read them don;t work live

 

[Knobhead]

If the boards are the old style open bar type then kill them unless you really know what you’re doing. With modern 3Ph boards you would have to doing something stupid to get hurt.

 

[pete.willerton]

At my place of work we can't do any live tests!!!
Unless the DB is IP2x or it's isolated and temp barriers installed over every possible live part and if that can't be done it's noted as a code 3 and replaced before the next test.

 

[Darkwood]

If you don't touch the live bits then you'll be ok!... regardless of your cover!

 

[Guest111]

At my place of work we can't do any live tests!!!
Unless the DB is IP2x or it's isolated and temp barriers installed over every possible live part and if that can't be done it's noted as a code 3 and replaced before the next test.

I could see that causing problems in certain situations,however the scenarios wher live working is permitted are becoming more limited this is due partly to more rules and partly due to the amount of people who got killed or injured while working live when its either unnecessary or totally inappropriate.

 

[7029 dave]

Don't do it!! You know its a no no hse will have a field day. Power DOWN!!!

 

[Pete999]

Just wondering, ask your boss for a Risk Assessment, Safe System of work, see what he/she says when they tell you to work live. It's simple really you shouldn't the EAW lays down the rules and it's a legal document. I'm not sure of the exact words buts something along the lines of only if it's deemed a matter of life or death

 

[Guest111]

Work on or near live conductors

14. No person shall be engaged in any work activity on or so near any live conductor (other than one suitably covered with insulating material so as to prevent danger) that danger may arise unless–

(a)it is unreasonable in all the circumstances for it to be dead; and

(b)it is reasonable in all the circumstances for him to be at work on or near it while it is live; and

(c)suitable precautions (including where necessary the provision of suitable protective equipment) are taken to prevent injury.

section from EAWR on live working.

 

[Davehaywire]

If you don't touch the live bits then you'll be ok!... regardless of your cover!

Obviously ,but there is always the possibility of something outside of the norm that can affect the surrounding area you are working in. Something beyond your control

 

[Guest111]

heres a link to the full thing.

The Electricity at Work Regulations 1989

 

[Davehaywire]

I totally agree that's what I've always said, it's ok for the fat f*** asking me to just do it,it's only through years of experience that I can, but it only takes 1 occasion to finish me off and for what, because they don't want to shut a server room down!!

 

[Guest111]

I totally agree that's what I've always said, it's ok for the fat f*** asking me to just do it,it's only through years of experience that I can, but it only takes 1 occasion to finish me off and for what, because they don't want to shut a server room down!!

Thats the thing Dave and when your wife's a widow he'll turn round and say "I told him it must be turned off and as far as I was aware it was".

 

[Pete999]

heres a link to the full thing.

The Electricity at Work Regulations 1989

I need to learn how to do that,

 

[loplug]

here's the Guide From Hse

 

[Knobhead]

Can’t say I blame them. I wouldn’t let you shut it down. If you don’t know what’s live in a board why are working for them.

 

[benji]

regulations implemented by people who have never done the job or were so crap at it they took a h&s position

 

[Pete999]

regulations implemented by people who have never done the job or were so crap at it they took a h&s position

Never heard so much clap trap in all my life

 

[benji]

ups ive upset somebody

 

[pete.willerton]

We had a chap at work recently who got a electric shock just doing r1+r2s and shorted out a phase
The flash was so bad burnt his beard and burns on his hand....
He lost his job due to not following safe isolation
Don't work live unless PPE along with risk and method but remember PPE is the last line of defence
And power can always be turne o

 

[Knobhead]

regulations implemented by people who have never done the job or were so crap at it they took a h&s position

Couldn't agree more.

 

[netblindpaul]

At my place of work we can't do any live tests!!!
Unless the DB is IP2x or it's isolated and temp barriers installed over every possible live part and if that can't be done it's noted as a code 3 and replaced before the next test.

Well your H&S people are muppets then.

Live testing is NOT live working, according to HSE anyway.

 

[netblindpaul]

Couldn't agree more.

Well I disagree in spades.

There is a HUGE difference between live working & live testing.

There is NO excuse for live working in a domestic, commercial or industrial premise.

 

[dingledong]

blind paul how do i do my live testing ?
though thinking about it the next report i do i can put cant test because fuse board live
hmmm should cut a good hour of my testing time

 

[Knobhead]

We’ll have to agree to disagree Paul. I was brought up with open boards and have no qualms about working on them.

 

[netblindpaul]

blind paul how do i do my live testing ?
though thinking about it the next report i do i can put cant test because fuse board live
hmmm should cut a good hour of my testing time

It seems that you have fallen into the muppet category that considers live testing as live working, as I have said there is a HUGE difference.
Live testing, is NOT, live working, if you can't see and understand that, go get a job in Tesco it will be safer for everyone.

 

[Silly Sausage]

regulations implemented by people who have never done the job or were so crap at it they took a h&s position

Hahaha...how's it go, "Those who are crap at their jobs get promoted 'up' to management"

 

[benji]

In certain respects i,am glad i retired after 50yr but i still miss it ,i used to look at a job/task and work out the pros & cons, if it could be done safely then do it if youve have doubts don,t do it get a second opinion .

 

[nickblake]

All I will say on the matter is if your working live testing or live work dont become complacent , its then you make the mistake and that could cost you your life , or you end up with a hair do like mine !!!!

 

[pete.willerton]

All I will say on the matter is if your working live testing or live work dont become complacent , its then you make the mistake and that could cost you your life , or you end up with a hair do like mine !!!!

And that's what exactly happened at my work a complacent mistake..

And it sparked a knee jerk reaction and placed a no live testing rule...
Or testing using PPE eg 1000v gloves, apron, face shield and rubber Matt.
Along with other procedures.

 

[Silly Sausage]

Dont be stupid tony, obviously you don't touch the live parts, but circumstances change all the time you might be unlucky one day, something may push you into the board, there may be a loud Bang somewhere else that causes you to jump, anything can happen at any moment
that kind of answer is the kind i expect of the fat f*** telling me to just do it it will be ok it's fine, then he walks into the ladder and you fall into the panel board oops sorry mate, yours kids won't have a dad this Christmas
to all you fat f**** out there with that attitude, go work for the council

Well if you're dumb enough to work Live without barriers and signage etc in place, you deserve what you get!
There are plenty of systems in place to reduce the risks...GS38, Permit to Work, etc etc...
The Regulations are quite clear on this subject!

 

[Dcf]

In certain respects i,am glad i retired after 50yr but i still miss it ,i used to look at a job/task and work out the pros & cons, if it could be done safely then do it if youve have doubts don,t do it get a second opinion .

Agree with this.
the op raised an interesting point on who would get blamed if it went wrong
but we are electricians are we not?
would I climb into a live panel board chamber and connect a cable onto bus bars? eh no.
would I connect a cable into a live 3 phase distribution board ? yes
Assess the risks I would say

 

[Knobhead]

How do you think we test on 11KV. Non of that lot is going to save you if it goes wrong.

 

[Lucien Nunes]

The OP asked mainly about insurance, whether he would be covered in the event of an accident, not whether it's actually safe, sensible or legal to work live. No matter how much you've paid for the policy, if there is the smallest doubt about your live work method and whether it is appropriate or valid in the circumstances, you can bet you won't be covered. In any case, if you calculate that the risk is high enough to warrant a special insurance policy, it's probably too high to be doing the work.

 

[High Tower]

How do you think we test on 11KV. Non of that lot is going to save you if it goes wrong.

Lick your finger?

 

[Silly Sausage]

How do you think we test on 11KV.

*removed* I'll leave that to you Real Men!

 

[richy3333]

If you have signed something somewhere that gets the employer out of liability then your screwed if you die

No you're not. Thats utter rubbish. You cannot contract out of death or bodily injury. End of.

 

[guest119]

It seems that you have fallen into the muppet category that considers live testing as live working, as I have said there is a HUGE difference.
Live testing, is NOT, live working, if you can't see and understand that, go get a job in Tesco it will be safer for everyone.

Are you and Glenn on commission for all these people you send to Tesco? :teeth_smile:

Boydy

 

[shanky887614]

No you're not. Thats utter rubbish. You cannot contract out of death or bodily injury. End of.

Boss goes to jail reguardless because as your employer he has a duty of care

 

[Hawkmoon]

Boss goes to jail reguardless because as your employer he has a duty of care

An employer (boss) may not even be an electrician - it is the competent electrician's responsibility to risk assess the proposed work and advise if it is safe to proceed.

The employer would have to be proven to be negligent in some way to be prosecuted.

 

[Bobster]

How do you think we test on 11KV. Non of that lot is going to save you if it goes wrong.

With an ammeter on an insulated stick.

 

[Engineer54]

I think there are too many views given by those that have never worked in heavy industry....
No idea how things are now in the UK, but i can assure you, live working was part and parcel of being an electrician when i worked within the industrial sector. And in those day's the company employed registered safety officers (24 hr cover) too.

Shutting down production ovens that took 10 hours to reach operating temperature and other plant with long preparation/start-up times was an absolute non starter when i was working in that sector, and i can't see that would be changing much now!!

 

[Pete999]

An employer (boss) may not even be an electrician - it is the competent electrician's responsibility to risk assess the proposed work and advise if it is safe to proceed.

The employer would have to be proven to be negligent in some way to be prosecuted.

Regardless of what the "Bosses" qualification/trade are, he or she bears the ultimate responsibility for your H&S at your place of work.
A clear H&S policy must be in place, as will Safe Systems of Work, risk assessments, permits to work etc, if you work live on your own initiative then its you that gets injured, but the "boss" will ultimately bear the full brunt of the HSE and could, depending of the severity of injuries sustained, be imprisoned.
Book em Danno murder 1