Part P

[trev]

Please expand me great mate, ran out of gin now on the vino.

If you've done something which is notifiable but have not notified, as long as everything is compliant how can you possibly be dragged in front of a court for anything as long as you have told the customer that it is their responsibility to notify and not passed yourself of as a CPS member

 

[Midwest]

Just noticed 'Government-approved scheme providers' or GASP for short, is defined as 'To draw in the breath sharply, as from shock!

 

[telectrix]

shoulkd really be govt' related approved scheme providers.. GRASP.

 

[Midwest]

Anyhow enough banter, what about a repost to my post, before I have to get on with the BBQ?

 

[trev]

Never mind that mate just get your pinny on and get cooking

 

[Midwest]

Already there........whats wrong with wearing a pinny, manly apron?

 

[telectrix]

hope that the metalwork of the bbq is bonded.

 

[trev]

Nothing wrong with it at all mate. I just thought you should get a reminder to put it on just in case. H&S you know, concerned for your well being.

 

[telectrix]

is this your apron?

 

[jaydebruyne]

I'm probably going to get strung up here but what the hell.

I'm in full support of what you said CPRFENOM, and the opinion of GavinA. Part P of the Buildings Regulations is a document which is upheld by law. It's not a guidance document like the British Standards BS7671. All BS documents do is give you guidelines to help you adhere to what the regulations expect from you when carrying out any works.

I'm a complete novice with electrics and have just completed week 1 of a stupidly short 3 week course to do Part P and 17th Edition.

Do I think it will make me competent? Not a f***ing chance.
Will I call myself an electrician. Not on your life!
But it will give me a step in the right direction, so when I find a lovely sparky in London who will let me shadow them I can start getting some actual experience.

I have also just completed a 6 week plumbing course and managed to land myself an apprenticeship with an experienced plumber. My main thing is to be a plumber BUT I would like to install electrical circuits for immersions and electric showers without having to call an extra tradesperson out.

At the end of the day, I do not want to make light of your hard earned careers by doing a 3 week course and thinking I'm on the same tier as a sparky who's been in the game for 30 years. I just want to do the little bits I want to do and that's that. But I have to abide by the law and that means getting Part P / 17th qualified and probably joining a competent persons scheme (once I've gained some experience) - although I would rather not based on how much they charge.

I DO agree, however, that these competent persons schemes are extortionately priced and seems to be a thriving business, probably earning the government a tidy sum by scaremongering newbies like myself into joining them or paying £300 a job for the building services to assess my work.

Anyway ...

We all start from somewhere, don't we!

 

[trev]

I'm in full support of what you said CPRFENOM, and the opinion of GavinA. Part P of the Buildings Regulations is a document which is upheld by law.

Therein lies the problem, it is not upheld by law. It is largely ignored by the people who are supposed to uphold it, if we were seeing prosecutions of incompetent people who are badged up by the r£gulatory bodies then maybe the rank and file electricians would get behind it because it would be driving the incompetent out of the trade. Instead we see threads started on here almost weekly with pictures that strike terror into the heart of most of us.
The schemes themselves don't appear to care because they'll do nothing (unless you're using their logo without having paid for the privilege) and when asked to explain themselves they hide behind the data protection act and the local authorities don't have the resources, knowledge or inclination to do anything.

 

[jaydebruyne]

Therein lies the problem, it is not upheld by law. It is largely ignored by the people who are supposed to uphold it, if we were seeing prosecutions of incompetent people who are badged up by the r£gulatory bodies then maybe the rank and file electricians would get behind it because it would be driving the incompetent out of the trade. Instead we see threads started on here almost weekly with pictures that strike terror into the heart of most of us.
The schemes themselves don't appear to care because they'll do nothing (unless you're using their logo without having paid for the privilege) and when asked to explain themselves they hide behind the data protection act and the local authorities don't have the resources, knowledge or inclination to do anything.

I completely see your point and agree with you.

Personally, I think it's great they have a competency scheme going but yes, it should be regulated properly like the Gas Safe Register is as they are both killers in their own right.

To the OP, maybe instead of lobbying to get the scheme shut down, you could lobby to make sure it's actually regulated properly and the have-a-go-sparkys who put peoples lives at risk are actually brought up on their shockingly bad work.

 

[trev]

I completely see your point and agree with you.

Personally, I think it's great they have a competency scheme going but yes, it should be regulated properly like the Gas Safe Register is as they are both killers in their own right.

To the OP, maybe instead of lobbying to get the scheme shut down, you could lobby to make sure it's actually regulated properly and the have-a-go-sparkys who put peoples lives at risk are actually brought up on their shockingly bad work.

Sorry Jay but the schemes and the government have had a chance to put their houses in order. What is now needed is a proper regulator with long pointy teeth and the ability to use them. The only way we are going to get that is by the existing shower being put out of business.
How do we do that? By boycotting them.
I've said it a thousand times on here but nothing ever got changed by people quietly accepting the status quo and moaning about it.

 

[jaydebruyne]

Sorry Jay but the schemes and the government have had a chance to put their houses in order. What is now needed is a proper regulator with long pointy teeth and the ability to use them. The only way we are going to get that is by the existing shower being put out of business.
How do we do that? By boycotting them.
I've said it a thousand times on here but nothing ever got changed by people quietly accepting the status quo and moaning about it.

But to boycott is to break the law. Is everyone really prepared not to work while you go through the process of taking this to the courts. Because if you continue to work, contravening the regulations, no court will even hear your plea as you can't abide by the regulations you are trying to get enforced.

Anyway, I fully appreciate where you're coming from and agree that it needs to be regulated by whichever body will actually DO something with it.

In the meantime, I'll start my search for a sparky to shadow to get some experience (I don't suppose you live in London do you and fancy a newbie one day a week? haha)

 

[trev]

Sorry mate I'm in the north east.
Boycotting the schemes is not breaking the law, not notifying a notifiable job is BUT suppose I go into your home and rewire it. Everything is compliant with the regs (remember they are a minimum standard)and well within the parameters.

Which court in the country is going to punish me for leaving your home in a better electrical condition than it was before I arrived?

No I'm not prepared to not work while someone challenges this in the courts because most of what I do is commercial and because of this stupidity the electricilty used in a commercial environment is less hazardous that the stuff I'm using to power my laptop at home now (sounds bloody ridiculous doesn't it) but as I say, we can either accept the situation as it is and put up with all the chancers that we have in increasing numbers infecting the trade and lowering standards or we can fight for what it should be.

 

[jaydebruyne]

Sorry mate I'm in the north east.
Boycotting the schemes is not breaking the law, not notifying a notifiable job is BUT suppose I go into your home and rewire it. Everything is compliant with the regs (remember they are a minimum standard)and well within the parameters.

Which court in the country is going to punish me for leaving your home in a better electrical condition than it was before I arrived?

No I'm not prepared to not work while someone challenges this in the courts because most of what I do is commercial and because of this stupidity the electricilty used in a commercial environment is less hazardous that the stuff I'm using to power my laptop at home now (sounds bloody ridiculous doesn't it) but as I say, we can either accept the situation as it is and put up with all the chancers that we have in increasing numbers infecting the trade and lowering standards or we can fight for what it should be.

I hear you.

I'm just gonna do my best to be the best. If I feel out of my depth with a job, I simply won't do it.

 

[trev]

Jay, you're probably clever enough to know when you're out of your depth (sorry mate but after only 15 posts there's no way of knowing so please don't take that as a dig at you) but there's shedloads out there who have been badged up by that schemes who shouldn't be allowed to wire a plugtop. Take a look at UKSparks' recent post about an install on a listed building carried out by a scheme member, it's an absolute horror story. (I think it was called I won't name and shame (something like that anyway))
Some of the lads went to a trade expo armed with the photos and asked this clown's scheme what they were prepared to do about it. They said they'd only act on a complaint by the customer and hid behind data protection.
That's what has got most of us up in arms about the crap we are fed by these idiots.
Fight The Power!

 

[GLENNSPARK]

But to boycott is to break the law. Is everyone really prepared not to work while you go through the process of taking this to the courts. Because if you continue to work, contravening the regulations, no court will even hear your plea as you can't abide by the regulations you are trying to get enforced.

Anyway, I fully appreciate where you're coming from and agree that it needs to be regulated by whichever body will actually DO something with it.

In the meantime, I'll start my search for a sparky to shadow to get some experience (I don't suppose you live in London do you and fancy a newbie one day a week? haha)

and one of the `cling to part P` club sounds off again....

 

[jaydebruyne]

and one of the `cling to part P` club sounds off again....

haha I'm not really a cling to Part P, I was sold the Part P/17th Ed courses at the same time as I booked my plumbing course and I was reeled in with their BS by them saying it's all I need to be a domestic installer. I'd already paid for it before I found out how worthless it was. So unfortunately I have no choice but to do it with a smile, learn as much as I can and try and shadow someone to gain some experience.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

haha I'm not really a cling to Part P, I was sold the Part P/17th Ed courses at the same time as I booked my plumbing course and I was reeled in with their BS by them saying it's all I need to be a domestic installer. I'd already paid for it before I found out how worthless it was. So unfortunately I have no choice but to do it with a smile, learn as much as I can and try and shadow someone to gain some experience.

Do...or do not....there is no try.

Yoda.